Whether a food is considered an acid-contributor or an alkaline-contributor
to your diet is not based (no pun intended) on whether the food is acidic or
basic (for example, lemons are base-producing but are definitely acidic when
consumed).  The foods that are acid promoting are foods that contribute
hydrogen ions to the system when they are metabolized, not in their
pre-digested form.  I am not having an easy time finding references that
really explain the chemistry behind this, and my biochem background is sadly
far in the past.
One problem I'm having is that foods are described as acid promoting or base
promoting based on their ash.  I've actually seen websites where this is
taken to be a metaphor, but I'm pretty sure that someone just takes the food
and burns it, then tests the pH of the ash (which is similar to how the
caloric content of food is measured).  The problem for me is that burning
foods is not the same as what your body does to get energy from them - an
obvious example is fiber.  I mean, you can burn fiber in a bomb calorimeter,
but your body can't get energy out of the stuff, which is why the calorie
content on high fiber processed foods is so off (and, I suspect, part of the
reason why high fiber foods seem to promote weight loss in some studies -
 you don't get as much usable energy out of the high fiber foods because
your body can't metabolize it).

I suspect you guys are onto something regarding the fat content of the food.
 I'd feel better if I really understood all the chemical reactions involved
in the metabolism of various micronutrients, but when we studied this we
always ignored the hydrogen ions - you study chemistry in an aqueous
environment and you tend to ignore any H+ ions that get produced with a wave
of the hand and an occasional "don't worry, the body will buffer this
away..."



On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Ron Hoggan, Ed. D. <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Hi Joseph,
> Thanks. That makes perfect sense to me. If we are comparing two slightly
> altered dimensions of a diet rich in neolithic foods, the variations may
> not
> be relevant to the dramatically different groups of paleo diets.
>
> I'm interested in your statement that "....the explanations of WHY certain
> foods are acid-promoting or alkaline-promoting are extremely weak." What
> are
> their weaknesses? The high rate of mineral recovery in the large intestine
> would appear to be one weakness. I also suspect some other weaknesses that
> Phil and I have been knocking around but haven't yet investigated. There is
> also the real-world evidence of meat eating populations with strong bones
> (which is, in my view, the most compelling). Can you suggest any other
> weaknesses?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paleolithic Eating Support List [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> ]
> On Behalf Of Joseph Berne
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:00 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Great blog post about saturated fats
>
> I don't have all the answers, but all the research I've seen on what makes
> a
> dietary component acidic or basic compares diets that are the SAD - they
> eat
> plenty of grain, dairy, processed food.  One group eats relatively more
> meat
> or cheese (but plenty of bread and dairy) while the other eats relatively
> more fruits and veggies (but still, plenty of grain and dairy).  Maybe
> vegetables can counter the bone density loss caused by phytic acid
> consumption - which means that if you're on the SAD more veggies might be
> good but isn't relevant to the health of someone who has a paleo diet
> (because, last I checked, pretty much every version of paleo I've ever
> heard
> of is anti-grain at the very least).  By the way, the explanations of WHY
> certain foods are acid-promoting or alkaline-promoting are extremely weak.
> The claims are based on studies, not on mechanisms, and like I said, all
> the
> studies I've looked up are comparing slightly different versions of a
> modern
> diet.
>
> Cordain can't get past a number of pieces of conventional wisdom that he's
> been saddled with.  Look at his take on saturated fat - he's been skewered
> here plenty of times for that, and while I understand how hard it is to
> break free of the "everyone knows..." voice in your head, he ought to know
> better.
>



-- 
Visit my Training blog:
http://karateconditioning.supersized.org