Well, I'm firmly in the camp that feels competition gives us more robust 
screen readers and access to more applications than we would get from a 
screen reader monopoly, especially from an MS monopoly. Once MS feels 
their screen reader is satisfactory, how are we as users going to get 
new features into this screen reader, especially after a free MS 
provided screen reader has driven JFW, Widnow-Eyes, Hal, ..., out of the 
market? Also, don't forget that MS is an application provider, so how 
much resources are they going to put into their screen reader to make 
Firefox, Opera, Symphony, Open Office, ..., accessible? MS is also able 
to set industry standards, so as they develop their own standards for 
web content, web extensions and so on, how much resources will they put 
into their screen reader to support competing standards and web 
extensions? How long will we be able to use Google, Yahoo, Java, and so 
on.  IMHO, a full blown MS screen reader will mean the blind are 
restricted to using a screen reader that's only as good as MS determines 
it has to be and that only works with MS applications and services. A MS 
screen reader may be cheaper for the blind, but IMHO it would be a step 
back in accessibility.

Sorry about that, what I really meant to say is that I don't think this 
survey is going to give us any useful data. I think most users would say 
that yes they would like a free screen reader included with Windows. Who 
wouldn't want to pay less for a screen reader. I'm not sure many people 
would think of the long term impacts though.

Furthermore, why would MS develop and distribute a screen reader for 
Windows? Is it going to improve their bottom line? Are they going to win 
government contracts that they are currently losing to other operating 
systems that have built in screen readers? Are they going to do this out 
of the goodness of their hearts? Are we thinking we need to have this 
litigated? If so, how will the general population feel when MS passes on 
the cost of developing this screen reader to everyone who purchases Windows?

BTW, I agree with many of the issues that people are raising. I don't 
think blind people should have to pay extra to get the same level of 
access to applications our sighted counterparts are using. I also don't 
think we should have to deal with this additional layer of complexity on 
our systems. Unfortunately, I don't think a screen reader monopoly is 
the answer to these very difficult and challenging issues.

Finally, I've participated in several of these debates, and I am glad we 
have different forums to engage in these debates, but I find people 
generally have pretty entrenched opinions regarding this issue and these 
debates can quickly get pretty heated and unproductive. I know my 
opinion on this issue hasn't changed after years and more than several 
debates on this topic. I guess this is my way of saying that I hope 
everyone stays respectful in this debate, and even though no one may 
change their opinion, they'll be open to the opinions and thoughts of 
others.

[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hi Ray and all,
> Well, I agree with Bill, and us blind folks will  have to decide which way we want it.
> I want access, (full access), out of the box!
> The mac is great, but it is only 8% of the market, so that's shot!
> Windows drives the market, so, until the Mac is #1, we're screwed, because most of the software is windows based only.
> Will someone on this list, set up a web page, real simple, with a 1 question survey.  "would you as a blind person, want windows to be fully accessible out of the box without any 34rd party screen reader, or do you want a screen reader that costs money to buy?"
> There's the survey.  So, someone run with this, and also, ACB and NFB, should put this 1 question survey in all the issues of the braille forum and braille monitor for people to answer, in their January or their FEbruary issues.  Let's get going with this.
> Harry
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Ray Campbell <[log in to unmask]>
> Apparently from: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VICUG-L] time for a rant, is anyone with me here?
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:41:07 -0600
>
> Hi Harry:
>
> I think I'm in agreement with you.  If Apple can build a screen reader
> into every Mac, why can't Microsoft, with their billions or trillions,
> build one into Windows?  I'm sorry, folks, Narrator is not a screen
> reader although it's good in a pinch when you need, for example, to
> initially set up a computer or troubleshoot things.  I'd like to see
> Narrator work in safe mode so we had access to fixing things in that
> mode which you sometimes have to do.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Campbell, Help Desk Technician
> Adaptive Technology Center
> Chicago Lighthouse for People Who Are Blind or Visually Impaired
> 1850 W. Roosevelt Road
> Chicago, IL  60608
> 312-997-3651 (Voice/Relay) or
> 888-825-0080 (voice/Relay)
> [log in to unmask] 
> AIM Screen Name: tclhelp
> www.thechicagolighthouse.org 
>
>
>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> Archived on the World Wide Web at
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>
>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
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>   

-- 
Christopher

[log in to unmask]


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