Re spruce needles:- Sorry, I was referring to plant-matter in general there, not carbs.

 

 

Re plants in winter:- The claim that plants formed only a tiny proportion of the caloric intake throughout the year, would presumably not apply during summer. Plus, Arctic tribes would routinely eat the fermented stomach-contents of animals they killed, which contained plant-matter(the herbivores, at least). If one looks at hotter regions, then the carb-levels become much higher(eg:- the Kitavans  with their 69% carb diet). And even during the Ice-Age, conditions would only have been truly Arctic in certain parts of the world like Western Europe.

 

Re ketogenic diets/epilepsy:- There are some unfortunate side-effects with ketogenic diets. Here's an example or two:-

 

"Reported side effects include dehydration, constipation, and, sometimes, complications from kidney stones or gall stones.

Adult women on the diet may have menstrual irregularities. Pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas), decreased bone density and certain eye problems have also been reported. Again, this is why the medical team closely follows children or adults who are on the diet.

The diet lacks several important vitamins which have to be added through supplements. Sometimes high levels of fat build up in the blood, especially if a child has an inborn defect in his ability to process fat. This possibility can lead to serious effects, which is another reason for careful monitoring." taken from:-

 

http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/about/treatment/ketogenicdiet/

 

"

The most common, almost “expected”, side effects of the diet are constipation, acidosis (especially with illness), and decreased weight gain (not often weight loss). These are often addressed immediately when the diet is started, especially using Miralax™ for constipation. The less common side effects, generally occurring in 1 in 20 children, include high cholesterol, kidney stones, growth slowing, and gastrointestinal upset. " taken from:-

 

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/keto_news_november07

 

The big problem with the ketogenic diet seems to be that they particularly love including (pasteurised)dairy. I can't imagine that dairy can possibly be good for epileptics.

 

Re rabbit-starvation:- I wholeheartedly believe in the phenomenon of rabbit-starvation. I  don't think it's a problem if one is eating a very small amount of carbs(I'm, usually,  a raw low-carber with c.10%(?) of diet being in the form of raw carbs).  My only point is to suggest that the 80%-fat-figure of total dietary calories for fat seems far too high just to avoid the possibility of rabbit-starvation. Maybe something as low as 30-60% of fat by calorie is still fine? Certainly 60%, I should think.

Geoff








 
> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:38:50 -0700
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Paleo Writing Exercise
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> Geoff said: 
> > There are too many problems with Taubes' claims. First of all, I recently
> > came across a point made by a swedish RVAFer that he could easily find
> > lingonberries in december as well as juniper berries. 
> [Ron] Sure. Now that berries are readily available at the local supermarket,
> I'm not at all surprised that they can be found frozen on the vine/cane.
> Still, this would represent a tiny proportion of the calories needed to
> survive, especially in a cold climate. 
> 
> > He also pointed out
> > that hazelnuts store well and that berries can be dried or frozen (in ice)
> > for long-term consumption over winter.
> [Ron] Sure, but they would represent a tiny portion of the year-long caloric
> needs. 
> 
> > He also mentioned that the Sami make
> > a brew of spruce needles during that time. So, the usual zero-carb claim
> > that carbs are unobtainable in witner just isn't true.
> 
> [Ron] Spruce needle tea was used for its vitamin C - sometimes to treat
> scurvy - not for the negligible carbs we might extract. Spruce needles are
> primarily composed of cellulose and lignin. However, the human appendix is
> no longer functional for extracting nutrients from cellulose. Further,
> lignin is a non-carbohydrate, complex polymer..... While spruce needle tea
> can be highly beneficial, I don't think it is a viable source of carbs. I've
> drunk spruce needle tea many times and while it is an acquired taste, it was
> my winter drink of choice when I was a schoolboy. 
> > 
> (snip)
> > 
> > re fat-percentage:- well, I can only go by the experience of RVAFers like
> > myself, and the general viewpoint is that too much fat in the diet(c.80%)
> > is none too healthy.
> 
> [Ron] And yet, drug resistant epilepsy often responds well to a ketogenic
> diet (~70% fats) and clinical trials of the ketogenic diet in insulin
> sensitive cancers is showing promising results in Germany and The
> Netherlands. The biggest challenge the researchers face is getting patients
> to follow a strict ketogenic diet because of their pre-conceived notions
> about the health hazards posed by fats. 
> 
> > Given my own experimentation with diet,I don't think
> > rabbit-starvation can be an issue unless fat-percentages are very low,
> > like way below 30% by calorie.
> 
> [Ron] Was the rest of your diet comprised of lean protein? What about carb
> content? Rabbit starvation happened to the early settlers of the central
> plains and the northwest during long winters where lean, wild meat was the
> only source of food. Bereft of fats and without carbs, the excessive protein
> content overwhelmed the body's capacity to clear the ammonia produced in the
> liver by gluconeogenesis. 
> 
> > (snip)
> 
> Best Wishes, 
> Ron Hoggan

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