> Geoffrey Purcell ...
> While a Palaeo diet  does  tend to reduce one's layers of fat, I don't
> think it leads to lower muscle-mass 

That's correct. On the contrary, I think it probably adds a little to it,
especially if fed that way from the womb onwards. My point was not that a
Paleo diet leads to lower muscle mass (the example I provided of Art De Vany
shows that it doesn't), but rather that losing FAT weight or counting
calories is not a concern for most Paleo dieters and hunter gatherers I've
seen. From what I can tell, Audette, Cordain, Eaton and Long didn't have
huge amounts of muscle mass to begin with. So they probably lost fat rather
than muscle mass, but doing so more clearly revealed that they didn't have a
lot of muscle mass to begin with.

> as well).. The trouble is that most  of the gurus you're talking about
> follow high-protein/low-fat diets. 

Not Ray Audette and not me and not the relatively traditional Inuit Eskimos
of the early 20th century, who were very slim (despite cartoons depicting
them as fat) if the old black and white photos of them taken before many of
them adopted a more modern diet in the 1970s are any indicator. In all three
of these cases the fat proportions consumed exceeded those of the standard
American diet and the Greenland Inuit reportedly ate more fat than any other
observed hunter gather group. It was even reported that Ray Audette eats a
pound of bacon at breakfast every day, though I find that a bit hard to
believe just from a practical standpoint (I have done that at times myself,
but not every day).

I also mentioned the muscular Art De Vany, who while not apparently not
subscribing to the necessity to eat only lean versions of commercial meats
appears to eat a diet closer to Cordain's cuisine than the fare of the
Inuit, Stefansson, Rosedale or Audette, if the sample menus on his website
are any indication:

> "Steamed artichoke, sauteed chile pepper, spinach the WW way, salmon
grilled in the pan with some romaine with anchovies and a bit of romano and
italian dressing."
> "shrimp with olives, celery, and cabbage along with an Italian Negroni
drink"
> "artichoke appetizer, steamed and then grilled with a balsamic and olive
oil dip, and we split a Caesar salad. And we both had a combination meal of
steak diane and crusted salmon with asparagus."

Yet De Vany is very muscular. See
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/archives/six/images/artRun.jpg and
http://www.cbass.com/IMAGES/Xlook.gif for photos of him.

> Perhaps if people incorporated far
> more fats into their diet(like our Palaeo ancestors seem to have done),
> then they would be bulkier.

Maybe. I did increase the level of fats in my diet in the hopes of bulking
up without any noticeable difference, but maybe I need to increase it even
more. Ironically, I get negative comments from people who tell me I eat too
much fat. I tell them, "Do I look like I need to lose weight?" I am also
trying to do more weight lifting.

I do have excellent muscle definition and can do far more ab crunches, lift
a little more weight, and do more difficult yoga maneuvers since I adopted a
Paleo diet. I don't think that I or Cordain, Eaton, Long, Audette or De Vany
lost muscle on a Paleo diet. I think we lost fat, which left mostly muscle
and bone behind, which in turn left all of us except De Vany looking rather
thin because we didn't have a lot of muscle underneath our fat layers to
begin with.


I'd like to clarify my understanding of a couple of your points. First you
said "Go low-carb. The fewer carbs and the higher the amount of animal-fat
one eats, the lower one's appetite is." But then you indicated that the very
slim Eaton, Cordain and Long eat high-protein/low-fat diets, which would
suggest that protein satisfies one's appetite (unless these people are
chronically hungry and just don't admit it). Perhaps the solution to this
puzzle is that both animal fat and animal protein satisfy the appetite more
than carbohydrates? Dr. Eades indicated this when he wrote: "increased fat
and protein in the absence of carbs is extremely satiating."

> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:28:52 -0400
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Newbie Question - Organ Meats
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Paleolithic Eating Support List
> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Purcell
> >> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:37 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: Newbie Question - Organ Meats
> >>
> >> There are various ways to cut down on costs as regards buying
> grassfed
> >> meats, IMO:-
> >>
> >> ....
> >> Go low-carb. The fewer carbs and the higher the amount of animal-fat
> >> one eats, the lower one's appetite is. You'd be surprised how your
> >> appetite drops after eating a pound or two of suet/marrow/tongue
> etc.,
> >> all of which are rich in fat.
> >....