Re comment:-  " I also get the feeling you believe they were rather naiive and not very bright when it comes to survival skills. My word, do you believe there was some sort of "great awakening" circa 10,000 years ago where the knowledge and skills involved with starting and tending fires were suddenly dispensed to humans? A "Garden of Eden" theory?"

 

I don't believe in a garden of eden theory, . I was referring to the actual scientific research, you'll find that there was  an explosion in innovation(re invention of nets/traps etc.) c. 60,000 years ago, with very little innovation before that(just use of flints and invention of fire) - at least hat's the stance of palaeoanthropologists, given current evidence.

 

Re comment:- "I take it you haven't cooked over a fire much? Once a fire is going it's rather difficult for a wind to "blow it out" (in fact, it's usually the opposite). " 

 

Yes, I have cooked over a fire, many times, over the years(not in the last 15  though). I used to be a boy scout, camped out when in the Corps, went mountain-hiking(still do). I usually found, that if I didn't constantly supervise things, that meats would char etc. As for the comment re fires going out, try lighting a fire in the lake district at easter. Even when using matches etc., and the partial protection of a tent-door on one side, it's a living hell trying to keep a fire going.

Re comment:- "And, if it does? I get the feeling you believe paleos were really, really busy with appointments and what not. If you had 10+ hours of free time each day, and no books, tv, etc., don't you think setting up a meal would be a welcome diversion?"

 

One main tenet of the garden of eden theory is that ancient man had all this free time on his hands so just sat around all day and ate and drank and sang songs.The above comment  is very similiar. I don't buy the notion that Palaeo peoples had all this spare time. For one thing, hunting isn't all that easy(one has to cope with famine, climate,illness etc., and it takes a hell of a lot of time for primitive hunters to track wild animals, kill them and cut them up. Secondly, I don't see Palaeo humans as spending all their time eating. They did have a culture of their own, the later palaeolithic peoples had cave-paintings /religious observances etc.  Another obvious point is that the Inuit and other tribes would often eat some parts of the kill right on the spot where the carcass lay, rather than taking every piece of it back to be laboriously cooked. At any rate, cooking can't be seen as less of a hassle than eating a food raw.

 

Geoff








 
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:21:28 -0600
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Enzymes and cooking (was Re: PALEOFOOD Digest - 29 May 2009...)
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> >Re T C Fry:- Enzymes are only one small aspect of the whole concept of raw.=
> >In the case of raw veganism/fruitarianism=2C there is an extremely good c=
> 
> I only referenced him because he made many of the same arguments as you. Except, of course, he maintained that paleos substituted fruits and nuts instead of meat :)
> 
> >d to go away for 10 minutes. Primitive cooking methods required constant su=
> >pervision=2C for obvious reasons=2C given that wind could put a fire out=2C=
> 
> I take it you haven't cooked over a fire much? Once a fire is going it's rather difficult for a wind to "blow it out" (in fact, it's usually the opposite). 
> 
> >or the uneven rate of cooking if one doesn't turn pieces of meat over etc.=
> 
> It's amusing to me that a raw meat eater would base an argument on "uneven cooking"
> 
> > And like I pointed out before=2C setting up a grill or setting up hot ston=
> >es etc. all takes time.
> 
> And, if it does? I get the feeling you believe paleos were really, really busy with appointments and what not. If you had 10+ hours of free time each day, and no books, tv, etc., don't you think setting up a meal would be a welcome diversion?
> 
> I also get the feeling you believe they were rather naiive and not very bright when it comes to survival skills. My word, do you believe there was some sort of "great awakening" circa 10,000 years ago where the knowledge and skills involved with starting and tending fires were suddenly dispensed to humans? A "Garden of Eden" theory?
> 
> >nutes using matches=2C solid fuel etc. but that's not what palaeo peoples h=
> >ad. 
> 
> Uhm, I know that. In survival training you learn how to do it without matches or any "man made" contrivance. I know folks who can start a fire inside 10 minutes with crap laying around on the ground. A "firestarter" would likely carry a kit of some sort that would make it easy,
> 
> > in places like the lake district at easter(windy=2C cold and very=2C very =
> 
> I live in a region (south/central Idaho in the US - very unpopulated and quite primitive - ask Mr. Swayze about that :) that likely resembles climates during the ice age in southern Europe. I've done some fall/winter camping here during rain and snowstorms. Believe me, once you get off the "beaten path" there is no shortage of tinder and fuel for a fire..Even in the dead of winter with 6-8 feet of snow on the ground.
> 
> >Re keeping fires going:- Well=2C I suppose it depends on certain factors. I=
> 
> Yes it does. I learned how to do it successfully - for up to a week - when I was in my teens.
> 
> >Re cooked-food preparation:- My own experience of SAD-eating/cooked-palaeo-=
> >eating is quite different=2C to put it mildly. As a youngster within an ex=
> <snip>
> >And when eating at other peoples' places=2C that too clearly requires a lot=
> > of preparation time. Usually=2C the hostess has had to spend several hours=
> > beforehand preparing the meal before guests arrive=2C then there's cocktai=
> <snip>
> 
> Let's see - preparation time, easy, cheaper, junk-food free... I get your points. Bottom line though - paleos likely ate a mixture of raw and cooked meats and raw and cooked veggies. The quantity/ratio depends on how far back you go on the timeline. "Modern" man (going back 50,000 to 150,000 years ago - and who *everyone* says is pretty much indistinguishable from us) certainly had the means and the methods to pursue cooking (or not - I'm sure personal preferences existed then as well as today). As various human groups became more efficient at hunting, gathering, and preserving; it's reasonable to assume some "cooking cultures" arose.
> 
> I have no beef :) with the fact that you prefer to eat raw meat. I enjoy both cooked and raw meat. However, I do have a beef with absolute declarations ("they would not have...", "they did not"..., etc) that I know are not true nor supported.
> 
> As far as parasites and bacteria go - well, there is a certain amount of synergism that exists between humans and our microscopic "friends". It's also apparentt that some adaptaion has taken place that is somewhat localized (ie - some bacteria from Tunisia may not "like" me - nor I them). Making generalizations is never wise :)

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