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I have no qualms with the notion of a United Africa. A unified Africa is good for everyone, that much we can all agree on.
I think Gaddaffi's call for a united Africa is charlantry at its best.
I will leave that on that note.
Brother Thomas, are you going on record as saying that Africa is better off with Tyrants and Dictators than with weak , developing democracies? ( see your last paragraph)
Collins
---- Thomas Adeetuk <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
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Brother Collins,
I stand by my comments. I did not say Gadaffi is "speaking for Africa". I asked very direct questions based on your comments. And I repeat them, Who is he insulting by calling for a United States of Africa, and is he not an African and why can't he make that call? No one said Gadaffi is a saint. And if I may add, since you seem to know for a fact that Gadaffi and his government have caused so many deaths in Africa, can you provide the rest of us who may not know what your evidence is?
Second, you asked an extended question "who said that because one is African, then he/she speaks for Africa, or has Africa's best interest at heart"; do you know who has Africa's interest at heart either? You are making value judgements of who Gadaffi is and do not for a minute think yours are the only judgements about this man. Other Africans like you are, have equally every right to judge the man for who they think he is.
And if I may add, there are many so-called democracies in Africa today, and in the past where not all the leaders are necessarily better for care takers of their people as Gadaffi is in Libya. Yes Libyans may not be enjoying the kind of democracy that you want for them, but I am not sure they actually would prefer the enept democracies that some other African countries have with leaders stealing to enrich themselves in denial of basic needs for their people. Let the dialog continue.
Thomas Adeetuk
College Library
Helen C. White Hall
600 N. Park Street
Madison, WI 53706
(608)263-3145
----- Original Message -----
From: Collins Ouko <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: What do you think about the United States of Africa? Share your thoughts...
To: [log in to unmask]
> ********************************************************
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> Here is the hypocrisy in Col Gaddaffi's actions:
> For all his good intentions, his government (and by extension
> himself) is responsible for a lot of deaths in Africa. He champions
> dictatorships over democracy. You will be hard pressed to try and find
> any dissenting voice in his country.
> Besides, who said that because one is an African, then he/she speaks
> for Africa, or has Africa's best interest at heart?
> Are we forgetting that slave trade would never have happened had
> Africans not sold their fellow Africans into slavery? So don't say
> that because he is an African he has Africa's nest interest.
>
> The last time Libya had a democratic election, a lot of people on
> this mailing list had not even been born.
> Someone said that there is no leader in Africa who can/will have the
> kind of political capital that Gaddaffi has to bring together a united
> Africa.
> I beg to differ.
> Could it be that it is because of leaders like Gaddafi and his
> generation that we have been unable to come together as a united continent?
> This is a generation that had a mind set of "emancipation from
> colonialism".( Mugabe)
> And they served the continent well and freed/liberated us. We stand
> on the shoulders of their struggles and live because so many of them died.
> But, this is NOW, we need leaders who are prepared for tomorrow.
> We owe this to our children and grandchildren.
>
> And finally, the messenger has to match the message.
> You can't be a dictator preaching democracy.
> Had Jesus Christ not been the man that he was, Christianity would
> never have been.
> Had the Prophet Mohammed ( Peace be Upon Him) not been the man he
> was, the message that he bore would never have been accepted.
>
> We can all agree to disagree, and in the course of the disagreement
> find a common ground.
> I hope we have a USof Africa some day. But I don't want to put the
> cart before the horse.
> Who comes 1st, the King or the Kingdom?
>
>
> Collins
>
>
> ---- Thomas Adeetuk <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
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> Just a few comments/observations:
>
> 1. Let us discuss this important topic with care and great thought
> and not let any individual anxieties cloud our critical thinking or
> contributions to this discussion. It is certainly not beneficial to
> infuse our discussion with statements like " To listen to Gaddaffi
> talking about a united Africa is both insulting and hypocrytical".
> Where is the insult or hypocracy in Gadaffi's call? And who is he
> insulting? Isn't Gadaffi an African? And does he not have the right
> like any other African to share his views on uniting Africa? Please
> live such comments out of our discussion.
>
> 2. If we want to start a serious dialog about working to create a
> United States of Africa, wouldn't it be better for us to concentrate
> our efforts in getting together like minds to braistorm on how best to
> do this rather than castigating others who are only trying to rally us
> to the call? If I may simply ask, what has the current dis-unity
> brought Africa so far? I hope forward looking is better than backwards
> looking. Even though lessons of the past can pave the way for the
> future.
>
> Let us continue the discussions.
>
> Thomas Adeetuk
> College Library
> Helen C. White Hall
> 600 N. Park Street
> Madison, WI 53706
> (608)263-3145
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ann Marie Dawson <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:37 pm
> Subject: Re: What do you think about the United States of Africa?
> Share your thoughts...
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> > ********************************************************
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> > RENEW YOUR AAM MEMBERSHIP FOR $25!!!!
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> > *"I want to congratulate the Libyan leader for his ascendancy to the
> > leadership of the African Union and his bold vision of
> > re-articulating the
> > dream of having a United States of Africa."
> > *
> > Settro, surely you must be kidding! Gadaffi has used his
> country's
> > money to
> > cause a lot of havoc in various countries in Africa, including Sierra
> > Leone, but the blame lies on some of our leaders who have led him
> to
> > believe
> > that throwing money around absolves him of all the blood on his hands.
> >
> > Ann Marie
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Collins Ouko <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > ********************************************************
> > >
> > > RENEW YOUR AAM MEMBERSHIP FOR $25!!!!
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> > >
> > > You gotta be kidding,
> > > The election of Gadaffi as the chairman of AU probably set whole
>
> > continet a
> > > decade or two back.
> > > Gadaffi is not the man to champion a united Africa, he neither
> > believes in
> > > nor supports democracy.
> > > I would be willing to listen to that idea of US of Africa if it
> was
> > > espoused by a Lumumba, Nkurumah, Mandela, Annan or any of the
> other
> > greats
> > > from Africa.
> > > To listen to Gaddaffi talking about a united Africa is both
> > insulting and
> > > hypocrytical.
> > > Besides, a united Africa is the least in the long list of
> Africa's
> > needs
> > > and problems.
> > > Until the whole continent is a democracy this idea will remain a
> dream.
> > > We can't get Sudan to stop killing its citizens, we can't get
> > Somalia to
> > > function as a nation.
> > > The East African countries can't agree on their "union", and
> let's
> > not even
> > > get started on Zimbabwe, Chad, Zaire or Nigeria.
> > > And are you serious that you are glad Gaddaffi is the Chairman
> of
> > AU?
> > > Nothing aginst the man, but he neither believes in what the AU
>
> > stands for
> > > nor what the rest of the continent is trying to achieve.
> > > US of Africa gets a NO vote from me.
> > >
> > > ---- Isaac Settro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
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> > > Just recently at the African Union Summit in Ethiopia,
> > > Libyan Leader Colonel Kaddafi and other leaders brought back to
> the
> > > podium the idea of forming the United States of Africa.
> > > This idea was first propounded by the likes of Nkrumah, Lumumba,
> > > Tubman, Sekou Toure et al, during the era of the Organization of
> > > African Unity (OAU).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I want to congratulate the Libyan leader for his ascendancy to the
> > > leadership of the African Union and his bold vision of re-articulating
> > > the dream of having a United States of Africa.
> > > This dream is overdue and it is time that we work with the Libyan
> > > leader and other well meaning Africans to see this dream come true.
> > > Here are few points i will like to state here as a way forward:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - that membership into the Union be voluntary;
> > >
> > > - that the capital city of the union be Johanesburg, South
> Africa
> > if they
> > > decide to be a member;
> > >
> > > - that the governance structure of the Union be based on sound democratic
> > > principle within the
> > >
> > > framework of the federal system;
> > >
> > > - that the model of the United States of America be a stepping
> > stone in the
> > > right direction;
> > >
> > > - that a serious publicity be launched globally to encourage African
> > > governments and Africans to accept this idea;
> > >
> > > - that debates be held around the continent and the diaspora for
> detail
> > > resolution in achieving this monumental dream.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Such union will unite Africa and bring economic growth to the dark
> > > continent of the world. It will also enhance democratic values
> > > throughout the continent. It is time that we debate this concept
>
> > and at
> > > the end come up with the best proposal to push our continent forward.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hope the Libyan leader will try to form a coalition of
> Africans (
> > be
> > > it poor, middle class or rich ) in achieving this goal. The
> world is
> > > looking and it is time for a change for a better tomorrow on the
> dark
> > > continent of Africa.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Isettro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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