Kyle,
"Moving Violations" is more of a memoir, and as such, it recaps
Hockenberry's personal experiences "in-country." before, during and
immediately after Desert Storm. Don't know if this meets the standard you'd
like for "supporting accounts."
On 1/14/08, Cleveland, Kyle E. <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I'll check out Hockenberry's work, Kendall. Does he have supporting
> accounts for his claims?
>
> Kyle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Kendall D. Corbett
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:02 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Obama experience
>
> Kyle, exactly! Cheney is the master of Machiavellianism, IMHO and, also
> IMHO, he's the "brains" of the outfit. I'd have been more inclined to
> have
> gone along with the Iraq war if the strategic importance of it's
> placement
> had been emphasized, as well as the atrocities perpetrated by Saddam
> against
> his own people. Don't know if you've read Hockenberry's "Moving
> Violations," but he talks about being in Baghdad during and immediately
> after Desert Storm, and the human rights abuses he describes were
> appalling.
>
> Mag, I don't think Hillary is any more Machivellian than most of the
> others
> running. As a matter of fact, I think Obama may be the least
> Machiavellian,
> and as weird as it sounds, I trust him less because of it. My feeling
> is
> that with a president who puts his or her own interests first, we at
> least
> know where they'll stand, even if we don't like it. Obama hasn't sold
> out,
> but I kind of wonder what price will be paid for his soul. But there
> I'm
> being extremely cynical.
>
>
> On 1/10/08, Cleveland, Kyle E. <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Kendall,
> >
> > I don't think Dubya is terribly Machiavellian in and of himself.
> Cheney
> > and that scoundrel Rumsfeld on the other hand...
> >
> > Here's a thought about Iraq and Machiavellianism: We went to war on
> the
> > lamest of "public" excuses. However--and maybe this is the military
> man in
> > me speaking--we have 125K+ troops in a country that borders three of
> the
> > four countries having direct involvement in the events of 9/11:
> Syria, Iran
> > and Saudi Arabia. It makes perfect strategic sense to me.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Cerebral Palsy List on behalf of Kendall D. Corbett
> > Sent: Thu 1/10/2008 2:51 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Obama experience
> >
> >
> >
> > Machiavelli said "it is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot
> be
> > both." There are many that say the present administration is the most
> > Machiavellian in the history of the US. All politicians seem to
> follow
> > Machiavelli to an extent, but what of those who consciously try to not
> > appear to be Machiavellian? Are they not the most duplicitous of all?
> >
> > On Jan 10, 2008 5:51 AM, Cleveland, Kyle E. <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not so sure it was either passion or self-pity that provoked the
> > > tears. I think it may possibly have been a calculated action to
> show
> > > she's not "calculating". She has a rep for being cold, ya know.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Kathy
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:30 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: Obama experience
> > >
> > > Humph, just because a woman cries, it's a negative thing -- it
> wasn't a
> > > pity
> > > party!
> > >
> > > (and besides, she won, so it doesn't seem to have hurt her chances
> in
> > > the
> > > caucus.)
> > >
> > > Kat
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "ken barber" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:19 AM
> > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.c-palsy
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Obama experience
> > >
> > > > looked like a pity party to me.
> > > >
> > > > --- Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I didn't see the entire hilary thing, but what I did
> > > >> see was not crying! I saw hilary being passionate
> > > >> about the issues she says she cares about. There is
> > > >> a difference guys!
> > > >>
> > > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >> http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> > > >> Tamar Mag Raine
> > > >> [log in to unmask]
> > > >> www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> > > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----
> > > >> From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:55:29 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Obama experience
> > > >>
> > > >> well Virginia, you told me something I did not know
> > > >> about LBJ.
> > > >> WAR ON POVERTY..LOOKS LIKE POVETY WON!
> > > >>
> > > >> WATCHING THE RETURNS, RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE
> > > >> hILLARY'S DEMISE MIGHT HAVE BEEN EXAGERATED.
> > > >>
> > > >> sorry i can't seem to keep my fingers off the caps
> > > >> lock for some reason.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --- Virginia Perry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Ken,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As I understand it, LBJ's health was a factor. He
> > > >> > didn't want the American public to lose another
> > > >> > sitting president so soon after Kennedy. One of my
> > > >> > sources says LBJ had an actuarial study done in
> > > >> 1967
> > > >> > to see how long he had to live. In fact, he died
> > > >> in
> > > >> > January 1973, so his instinct in that was pretty
> > > >> > accurate. Of course, his party wasn't very
> > > >> > supportive, either, due to all the flak LBJ was
> > > >> > taking on Vietnam. I sometimes wonder what he
> > > >> could
> > > >> > have accomplished if he hadn't been saddled with
> > > >> > Vietnam -- if he'd been able to really focus on
> > > >> his
> > > >> > War on Poverty.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > But I guess my overall point was that experience
> > > >> > shouldn't always be THE deciding factor in an
> > > >> > election.> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:03:18 -0700>
> > > >> > From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re:
> > > >> Obama
> > > >> > experience> To: [log in to unmask]> >
> > > >> > Virginia, et al,> > Carter ran in '76 as an
> > > >> "outside
> > > >> > the Beltway" candidate, and relied on his>
> > > >> executive
> > > >> > experience in Georgia. Reagan ran as an "outside
> > > >> the
> > > >> > Beltway"> candidate in 1980, and relied on his
> > > >> > executive experience as Governor of> California.
> > > >> > Clinton ran as an "outside the Beltway" candidate
> > > >> in
> > > >> > '92, and> relied on his executive experience as
> > > >> > governor of Arkansas. Johnson had a> lot of
> > > >> > Washington experience, and was vice president
> > > >> under
> > > >> > Kennedy, which> helped him a lot in his election
> > > >> in
> > > >> > 1964. It would have been interesting to> see what
> > > >> > would have happened if LBJ had run in '68.> On Jan
> > > >> > 4, 2008 5:40 PM, Virginia Perry <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> > wrote:> > > Historical note: Nixon won his first
> > > >> > term as president at least partly> > because he
> > > >> ran
> > > >> > as the more experienced candidate (he'd been
> > > >> > vice-president> > before). More experience can be
> > > >> > better, but it isn't always a guarantee of> >
> > > >> > quality
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > >> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows
> > > >> Live.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012
> > > 008
> > > >> > -----------------------
> > > >> >
> > > >> > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY
> > > >> > list, go here:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> > > ____________
> > > >> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > > >> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> > > >>
> > > >
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> > > >>
> > > >> -----------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY
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> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > > >>
> > > >> -----------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY
> > > >> list, go here:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> > > ____________
> > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------
> > > >
> > > > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
> > > >
> > > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
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> > > -----------------------
> > >
> > > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
> > >
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> > >
> > > -----------------------
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Kendall
> >
> > An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
> >
> > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
> progress
> > depends on the unreasonable man.
> >
> > -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
> >
> > -----------------------
> >
> > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
> >
> > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------
> >
> > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
> >
> > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
> Kendall
>
> An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
>
> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
> progress
> depends on the unreasonable man.
>
> -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
>
> -----------------------
>
> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
>
> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
>
> -----------------------
>
> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
>
> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
>
>
--
Kendall
An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
-----------------------
To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy
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