Doris,

I actually would agree with you on all that you said.  Although, one thing I
see differently is the practicing part.  You won't need to practice because
situations and circumstances will come to you.  We then have plenty of
opportunity to see faith work.

Phil.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chipmunks" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Faith - Lesson 2


> Is faith the same as trust in God and reliance upon him? If I won't
> grow in trust in the Lord ever, i am hopeless.
>
> It was my understanding  that as I spend more time with God, spend
> more time in his Word, get to know him better, I will trust him more
> just as it works with people and I thought I did.
>
> I am not sure I understand the terminology right.
>
> to me "faith" is my faith in God and in my salvation thru Jesus
> christ. This faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit and nothing of my own
> doing but only my acknowledgment and acceptance of the gift. My Faith
> is therefore what God has given me and I have that faith in an
> unmetered amount just as I have my salvation in an unmetered unmount.
>
> My trust in the Lord, however, my reliance on him is a growing
> process as I learn to walk with him, learn to trust him more, learn
> to rely on him more, learn to turn to him more and having this come
> more and more naturally. This to me is where "practice! practice!
> practice!" comes in also.
>
> clarification would be welcome.
>
> cheers,
>
> Doris
>
>
>
>
> At 12:29 PM 5/17/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >i.    The Origin Of Faith.
> >
> >      Let's begin by four statements concerning faith which I will
> >first present and then, as the study continues, I will prove
> >biblically.
> >
> >      1.  Faith is a fixed value.
> >      2.  God has faith.
> >      3.  You will never have more faith than you do right now.
> >      4.  Faith and more faith isn't what we need.
> >
> >Since in this section, we are focusing on "The Origin Of Faith,"
> >let's answer the question, "From where does faith come?"  to
> >answer this question, I am going to focus on these three areas.
> >
> >A.  The Source Of Faith.
> >B.  The Strength Of Faith.
> >C.  The Size Of Faith.
> >
> >A.  The Source Of Faith.
> >
> >      Romans 12:3 says, "God has dealt to every man the measure of
> >faith."  The Greek word for "dealt" in this verse means
> >(separating or dividing into equal portions).  For example, when
> >cutting a pie, we attempt to cut the pie into equal portions so
> >everyone gets the same amount.  If you were God and cutting that
> >same pie, it would be exactly equal portions.  When giving candy
> >to our children, or in my case, our grandchildren, everybody gets
> >an equal amount.  Otherwise, somebody's feelings are going to get
> >hurt.  We don't give more to one than the other because that
> >wouldn't be fair.  God doesn't play favorites either because He
> >loves us all the same, that is, equally.  Thus, the faith we have
> >is proportioned to everyone equally, exactly, and precisely.
> >
> >      The Greek word for "measure" in this same verse means an
> >instrument of exact measurement.  This Greek word has been
> >transliterated and given us the word "metronome."  this time
> >keeping device sits on a piano and assists us in keeping perfect
> >time to the music we play.  Thus, an exact measurement of faith
> >allows us to keep perfect time with the Lord and His perfect will
> >and God is the One who keeps perfect time in our lives.
> >
> >      According to this verse, "Who gives us this exact
> >measurement of faith?"  Yes, it is God Himself who gives us the
> >faith.  So the real question now become, "Where did God get it?"
> >
> >      If I were to ask if god has righteousness verses God is
> >righteousness, I'm sure you would say, God is righteousness.  If
> >I were to ask if God has holiness or is God Holiness, I'm sure
> >you would agree that God is Holiness.  If I were to suggest God
> >has love but God Isn't love, I would imagine you would totally
> >disagree with that statement and say, God is love.  Yet, if I say
> >God has faith, or God is faith, most would disagree with both
> >statements.  So let's discover what the Bible says is the truth
> >concerning this matter.
> >
> >      Hebrews 12:2 says, "Looking unto Jesus the author and
> >finisher of our faith."  Some would quickly point out that the
> >verse says it is "our faith."  Let me just as quickly point out
> >the focus is on Jesus and not us.  Besides, if we have faith as
> >Born Again Believers, where did we get it?  Hebrews tells us we
> >got it from the Lord Jesus.
> >
> >      The Greek word for "author" in this passage means (head,
> >leader, chief), as in "The Commander and Chief," of our faith.
> >Likewise, the Greek word for "finisher" in this verse means (one
> >who perfects).
> >
> >      A friend of mine builds houses for a living but he is called
> >a framer because he, and his crew, builds the structure, or
> >framework, of the house.  Others come in to do the wiring,
> >plumbing, sheet rocking, and they literally "finish" the house.
> >This is what Jesus does for our faith.  Our faith comes from
> >Jesus and He finishes it for those who are continuing to walk in
> >it.
> >
> >      Unfortunately, for some, this raises yet another question.
> >If Jesus is the "author," and "finisher" of our faith, that must
> >mean that Jesus has faith, or He is faith, so where did He get
> >it?  Before answering that question, let's continue and we will
> >return to this issue later.
> >
> >      Although it is likely we are not yet in agreement that our
> >faith has been given to us by God, and that Jesus is the
> >Perfecter of our faith, let's look at another aspect of faith
> >that will begin to bring things into focus.
> >
> >B.  the Strength Of Our Faith.
> >
> >"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God,
> >(Romans 10:17).
> >
> >      Several years ago, this passage of Scripture continually
> >came to my thoughts.  Over a period of a couple of weeks, it
> >nearly drove me crazy.  I finally stopped working one day, sat
> >down at my computer, and dialed the verse into the window and
> >began studying each word.  What bothered me the most, during this
> >two week period, is that still small voice of the Holy Spirit
> >kept misquoting the verse.  He said, "Faith comes out of hearing
> >the Word of God."  I knew that was wrong so maybe, just maybe,
> >that wasn't the voice of the Holy Spirit in my thoughts after all.
> >Of course, as it turned out once again, I was wrong and He was
> >right.
> >
> >      The Greek word for "cometh by" as used by the King James
> >translators means (out of), or "out from).  Coupled with the
> >question, what are we hearing, and the answer is the Word of God,
> >then the verse literally reads, "Faith comes out of hearing the
> >Word of God."  This can only be true, of course, if we are
> >listening at the time.  Listening, that is, with our spiritual
> >ears.  In fact, the experience itself I just describe is exactly
> >how faith literally comes out of hearing the Word of God.  This
> >also means, in my opinion, but I am far from done proving it, that
> >faith must be a fix value, that is, a fixed amount.  Why?  Because
> >such is the nature of God's Word; it never changes.  If faith
> >comes from hearing the Word of God, and God's Word is fixed, or
> >true, or without error, then the faith which comes out of the Word
> >of God must have the same spiritual characteristics.  Thus, I
> >believe faith is a fixed amount.  Let's not stop yet, though,
> >proving that faith is, in fact, a fix value or an exact spiritual
> >measurement.  In this line of thinking, and only in this way, I am
> >calling this the "strength" of our faith because our strength,
> >metaphorically speaking, and sometimes even physically speaking,
> >comes from total dependency upon God's Word.
> >
> >      We have looked at the A.  Source Of Faith, and B.  The
> >Strength Of Faith, so let's move to the next point in the
> >outline.
> >
> >C.  The Size Of Faith.
> >
> >      Question.  How much faith does it take?  I'm referring to
> >whatever you are asking God for and believing.  Does it, as was
> >earlier suggested, take a little faith, medium sized faith, 75
> >percent faith, or off the scale faith in order to get the job
> >done?  You see, this is why I do not personally believe that faith
> >has a size or measurement other than the exact measurement we
> >received at the moment of salvation.  As I said, the faith you
> >have now is all the faith you are ever going to have.
> >
> >Illustration.
> >
> >      Several years ago, I was listening to one of my favorite
> >daily Christian radio programs.  If I mentioned the man's name,
> >everyone who listen to Christian radio at all would know him.  I
> >still greatly admire this man and still often listen to his radio
> >programs.  I have even purchased a number of his tapes over the
> >years and still would if I heard something I desired to review and
> >keep for my personal satisfaction and spiritual growth.  So, what
> >you are about to read is in no way a criticism of this man or his
> >ministry.
> >
> >      One day, his guest was a man who had been working on the
> >engine of a prop aircraft.  He had pushed on the prop, it swung
> >back, struck his nose, and literally sliced his nose off.  As the
> >testimony goes, the man began screaming, "I am healed by the
> >stripes of Jesus.  I am healed by the stripes of Jesus."  People
> >came running and even his wife, who just happened to be driving to
> >the airport, and because she felt the Lord telling her to get to
> >the airport as I recall, drove into the parking lot shortly after
> >the accident.  She ran out to the area where the plane was parked,
> >fell down beside her husband, and in spite of the crowd and the
> >medical team trying to work on him, started praying out loud in
> >tongues.  If you don't believe in speaking in tongues for today,
> >forget that last part but keep reading.  They took the man to the
> >hospital, and without pain killing drugs, literally sowed his nose
> >back on.  That night, the man was standing in a church speaking
> >and giving his testimony of healing.  The testimony itself is not
> >what bothered me about what I heard.  By the way, for you
> >skeptics, the phrase "By His stripes we were healed?"  That is a
> >quote from both First Peter 2:24 and Isaiah 53:5 except in Isaiah,
> >it says, "By His stripes we are healed."  The Greek and Hebrew
> >words used for the word "healed" is translated, (cured).  You
> >cannot be cured from your sins; only forgiven.  Thus, the passages
> >of Scripture are not metaphorical but literal.  The word is used
> >repeatedly throughout the New Testament in passages where it says
> >Jesus cured the sick.  Look it up for yourself if you doubt what I
> >have just said.
> >
> >      what bothered me in this man's testimony was not how he was
> >healed by the stripes of Jesus.  It was what he began to teach
> >about faith, and said how we exercise our faith, and learn how to
> >walk in faith, which bothered me.  Why?  Because what he taught
> >wasn't Scriptural.
> >      I made mention of this previously but I felt it was worth
> >repeating in more detail again since it related directly to the
> >size of faith it takes to get a prayer answered.
> >
> >      As the man continued after his testimony, he was asked by the
> >host about how we make our faith work.  The man suggested we start
> >out with small things, such as a head ache, and once we achieved
> >success in the smaller areas, then advance to the more difficult
> >and complex.  This implies that faith must have a predetermined
> >size which God has preordained for each individual situation and
> >will not, therefore, accept anything less.  It is this concept
> >which I find totally unscriptural.  Let's return to the original
> >passage I used when beginning this study on faith.
> >
> >"And the Apostles said unto the Lord, increase our faith,"
> >(Luke 17:5).
> >
> >      As I pointed out, these same disciples came to Jesus on
> >another occasion and said, "Teach us to pray," and Jesus did
> >teach them to pray.  He, Jesus, used what we call the Lord's
> >prayer to teach them a format to which they could relate.
> >Unfortunately, some religions today have made what Jesus taught,
> >the central form of worship in their denominations and such was
> >not at all the point Jesus was trying to get across, but I
> >digress.  The issue is, Jesus did not increase their faith upon
> >their request.  Instead, on more than one occasion, Jesus started
> >teaching, it would appear, on mustard seeds and trees and
> >mountains and oceans.  Let's quote the very next verse in Luke 17
> >but this time using verse 6 in the passage.
> >
> >"And the Lord said, If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed,
> >you might say unto this sycamine tree, be thou plucked up by the
> >roots, and be though planted in the sea; and it shall obey you."
> >
> >      I realize that most of us have been taught he was speaking
> >and teaching metaphorically and spiritually and that Jesus really
> >didn't mean what He said.  After all, He was just teaching.
> >Right?  Yes, He was indeed teaching all right but He was teaching
> >about faith or did we forget that already?  What, then, was Jesus
> >trying to say?  Was He suggesting the disciples had faith even
> >smaller than a mustard seed?  That seems difficult to believe
> >since His disciples had been preaching and teaching on their own
> >and casting out demons, healing the sick, and doing everything
> >they had seen Jesus already doing.  So they must have had a fair
> >amount of faith, otherwise, how could they have done those
> >miracles at all?  Let me explain what I mean by comparing yet
> >another passage of Scripture.
> >
> >                         Matthew  17:14-20
> >
> >14  And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a
> >certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying.
> >15  Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore
> >vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the
> >water.
> >16  And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure
> >him.
> >17  Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse
> >generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer
> >you? bring him hither to me.
> >18  And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and
> >the child was cured from that very hour.
> >19  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could
> >not we cast him out?
> >20  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for
> >verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard
> >seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder
> >place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto
> >       you.
> >21  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
> >
> >This is quite a fascinating portion of Scripture in many ways.
> >There is a great deal of theology that could be gleamed from this
> >miracle but it isn't the miracle upon which I wish to focus at the
> >moment.
> >
> >      First, and foremost, we have the mustard seed comparison
> >Jesus used again.  The disciples also failed in their attempts to
> >cast the demon out.  Odd, you might think, because they had
> >already been doing exactly that, and much more, as Jesus sent them
> >out under His power and authority.  Since the disciples came to
> >Jesus and asked Him why they could not cast the demon out, they
> >apparently figured it didn't work because they did not have enough
> >faith.  As it turns out, that wasn't the problem at all.
> >
> >"19  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could
> >not we cast him out?
> >20  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief."
> >
> >      Because of their "unbelief?"  Wait just a minute here.  Did
> >Jesus get mixed up on His doctrine or something?  Shouldn't it be
> >their faith that was in question?  What's believing have to do
> >with anything?  You see, the disciples made the same mistake we
> >normally make, and that is, we think faith has a size for each
> >individual thing we face in life.  This erroneous interpretation
> >of Scripture leads one to believe that if they pray, and nothing
> >happens, then they just didn't have enough faith.  Yet Jesus made
> >it perfectly clear, it wasn't their lack of faith but what they
> >believed.  They thought if they just had enough faith, or more
> >faith, or a whole lot of faith, things would happen.  Jesus
> >explained to them it had nothing to do with their faith which they
> >thought needed increasing but what they believed.  Jesus was
> >trying to get them to see, and understand, that it was not the
> >size of their faith that made the difference but the size of their
> >God.  How big is God?  Whatever you believe.  The variable in any
> >situation, therefore, is not how much faith you have, or need, but
> >what we believe.
> >
> >      In this particular case, Jesus said prayer and fasting was
> >required.  Why?  For the disciples to have gain greater insight to
> >why the demon was there in the first place and to remember the
> >authority Jesus had already given them.  The fasting and prayer
> >certainly wasn't for the demons benefit.
> >
> >      Before leaving this lesson, let me mention that I am far from
> >finished proving what I believe about faith.  the other lessons
> >expand upon what I have taught thus far.  If you stop here,
> >without reading the rest of the lessons, you will go away with the
> >wrong conclusions.  What I teach and believe and live by is not
> >even taught by Charismatics and Pentecostals so don't try and get
> >ahead of me.  If you out run your headlights, you might end up as
> >your own road kill.
> >
> >End Of Lesson Two.
> >
> >
> >It Sounds Like God To Me.
> >www.SafePlaceFellowship.com
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date:
> >5/15/2007 10:47 AM
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 5/15/2007
10:47 AM
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/07
6:05 PM
>
>