Mr. Darbo I have to admit that I am just enthralled at the way you make your way with this  English language. I always look forward to read your write ups and I cannot wait for your book.
And Joe I appreciate the narration of your encounter in 1981 mayhem. Because I was not old enough to remember what happen in 1981 I am always curious to know what happened during the chaos.
Lamin
Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Suntou:
   
  Joe is an equal opportunity Gambian, a cogent, compelling, and consistent advocate for institutionalism in our public life. Although expressed differently, your views' on the proper ordering of the public space of a secular Gambia are not incapable of converging.
   
  As to ethnicity, Joe is right that it is 'mindless' and we must endeavour to treat it as such. Even as I accept that ethnie is central to cultural identity, ethnocentrism is irrational and incapable of objective validation. In the Gambia, we require an all-inclusive tent if we must avoid collapse in our civil space. In his form thus far on the issue of ethnicity as a phenomenon in Gambian public life, I have no hesitation in entrusting Joe with my life, our ethnic backgrounds notwithstanding.
   
  If I recall accurately, Yusupha and Dave counselled that you abandon the ethnic debate. To drive home the mindlessness of ethnocentrism, please ponder whether, absent lustfulness,  you are capable of loving my wife better than you do your own wife. Private identity should have no bearing on public space, and for all our sakes, the only Gambia capable of protecting our collective dignity is one that celebrates diversity even as it adamantly strives to ameliorate the natural excesses of ethnocentrism. 
   
  I am sure you fully appreciate that that Gambia should be a meritocracy in the context of the rule of law as a doctrine of governance properly understood!
   
   
   
   
   
  LJDarbo 
   
   
   
    

SUNTOU TOURAY  wrote:
  Joe, for my part, i never promote tribal bigotry. i am all for equality and respect. but as halifa once said ''you cannot change the cause of history by facing the portrait to the wall''. i did not place the mandinkas over any small or large Gambian tribe. putting things in perspective is part of every day exchanges ,from the financial world to the journalistic ,legal etc. that is why i took part in the debate. i have said and done my little for effectiveness of democracy for the Gambia. i will continue to play my part in ways i am comfortable with. yes ,we can all make statements that arouse passions, but which Gambian can you point out who believe rightly that '' they own the Gambia'' in the exclusion of others? human beings are never a spent force. people are not tools or commodities. however bad some one is ,they may have a good quality to them. i believe when it is history that is being discussed, the people at the centre of the discussion have the right to have
their say. unless ,we want to discard them to the past. history is all about the past .i would rather listen to a party to a crime than a secondary source. i call for African unity ,not just the Gambian unity. our bond is strong. for that we need to uphold what make us a better people. yahya is not the problem .he is what we make him to be. he is our making. Gambians voted for him to rule .they did that for three consecutive elections. i think it is time we direct our efforts to the people not just yahya. it is an easy option to talk and write about yahya ,but the electorate choose him all the time ,why? we need to stop the blame game and coded messaging and talk frank.i do not associate with any of the current political parties. i don't think they have a strategy to bring in change. all of them. it is a call for every Gambian to think about . we don't just want yahya out ,but why him out and what systems to put in place to safe guard the safety and prosperity of the
people.

Joe Sambou wrote: Abdou you wrote:

"Gambia is for all Gambians". 

You cannot be more right. Sometimes we get carried away or are blinded by our ethnicities and our perceptions of their greatness. That may have worked in the past. It is a new day and it better behooves all to realize that their best bet is to see themselves as Gambians first and their ethnicity last. It is that stupid mentality that we have the village idiot currently man handling the rest of Gambia and touting his jola greatness and the the greatness of his forefathers. How come we are not putting most of our energies to doing something about Yaya? The other thing is, folks, look closely at the participants that compose the ruination of Gambia today and you shall see that all the ethnicities are knee deep in helping Yaya do a job on Gambians. When we talk about the murderers in that country, you see all the ethnicities represented. Those that are illegally detained, you see all ethnicities represented. The criminal element in today's Gambia, you see all the Groups
represented. The corrupt elderly that stroke Yaya's ego, you see all the ethnicities represented. Then all of a sudden we say let's get rid of the cancer, then we see the silliness in us talking about majority and minority control or the greatest minority or majority. Abdou, Africans in America are just 12% (+/- 2%), does that mean that Obama cannot be president, because he is an African-American? Your point is right on. What matters is, is the person qualified? I careless whether Yaya is a Jola. Is he making Gambia a better place for all? That should be our primary interest. When folks start touting the greatness of their ethnicity or religion, you cannot but have to also entertain another to come and talk about the greatness of his ethnicity or counter your opinion, as mindless as it is. The way I see it, Gambia has thus far two Presidents and both combined are the reason for the sorry state our people live today. Some may see them as Mandingo and Jola President,
respectively, but I see them as an incompetent Dawda Jawara and and incompetent and Murderer as in Yaya Jammeh? Yaya got rid of Jawara the person and can never get rid of the Mandingoes. Thus, our efforts should be put to getting rid of Yaya the person. You take care of the head, you will realize that the support cast will be stripped. 

Is the Gambia owned by the Wolofs and Mandingoes? Hell no. How about the Fulas, if the first two combined can never own it, how can the one ever own it? And we are yet to hear the Saraghulehs, Jolas, Njagos, Serers, Papel, Balanta, Bambara, Aku, Housa, Mende, etc., etc., tell us how great their's is. The current debate as far as I am concerned is healthy for through discussion we are going to flush out the contradictions within us. It started as a Mandingo-Wolof debate/opinion and now the Fulas take a seat. I'd rather deal with discussion and everyone continue living, than we sit on our thoughts and see a Rwanda fall on our lap. I am also more concerned about the Gambia our people are living today, than the actors of yesterday. After I emptied my chest on Jawara's mediocrity, all my energies, since the entrance of our current mediocre and murderer, is to fight to get rid of Yaya. I would rather see the current opinion heads in the debate to also be in the fore front of the
campaign to get rid of our current problem. I have seen Saul Khan very active and he has also contributed financially to effect change in the Gambia. I want to see Sam Sarr, Suntou, Mathew and many others that chimed in this discussion, to show the same passion in getting rid of our current problem, not only through penmanship alone but to join others to make change a reality. If you have done that behind the shadows, then bravo, but what are you afraid of to come out and stand and be counted? If we want to continue to demystify our ethnic biases and the actors within, what a better place than to dive right in our current landscape. These are people we all we know that are alive plundering the little we have. That would be more productive that dwell on spent forces. Are you folks afraid of doing something about Yaya, the reason you want to focus to infinity on your perception of the history of our past, real or imagined? Some of our most vocal have been writing here for a
decade or more and yet, not a soul has ever seen them in any gathering called to bring about change. How bizzare. After a decade or more of fighting Yaya on your couch, how about standing up and stretching your legs and join your fellow citizens in a gathering for change. I care less what tribe one hails from, than the content of their character. 

Chi Jaama

Joe 
> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:51:59 +0000> From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [>-<] those who think this nonsense topic is done with are in for a shock. mk jallow in the fram> To: [log in to unmask]> > Yanks> Stop it and stop it for a period! You will be class in the same boat and it is not Gambia we are looking. Earlier on the same issue my posulation is that we in United Kingdom, let us look around with New Labour Gordon Brown a Prime Minister, a scottish and a minority group but is the majority English people looking at him and his Scottish identity NO! It is about time to advocate for tolerant as elite and allow to be carried away or peddling divisive politic. My brother your legal mind and define sense of direction should allow to be strongly against illusive literal work mean to divide our people but you should stay away from that narrow mindedness. Gambia is for all Gambian and let us not be driven with sensation and emotion to sow the seed
discontention among our people who have been for years living under politics of marginalisation.> > yanks dabo wrote:> Suntu> > "Ee-ning bara bakeh"! > > William Hazlitt stated in 1830; “Prejudice is the child of ignorance”. > > Those Manding haters express nothing more than their ignorance about our people!> > Abaraka!> > Brethren Yanks > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:54:31 +0000> > From: [log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: [>- To: [log in to unmask]> >> > just a few words to mathew jallow.> >> > http://www.thegambiaecho.com/Homepage/tabid/36/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1082/Default.aspx> >> > SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:> > yusupha, your comments are reassuring. i was born in sierra Leon like some other Gambians. we can narrate endlessly how peaceful those people were in the early to late 80's. the sierra leonean even work their socks off for foreign investors and diamond dealers. they are peace loving and they love partying, the same can be said of the
Liberians. no one party more than Liberians. but look what happens there. also the average Gambian love to party .we are little different. i feel our religiosity is a major factor in our low rate of violence. but looking at the world today ,one can see people doing the must honourable things in the name of religion and again the must dishonourable things in the name of god and religion. we need to stop pottiness before it trigger evil. look what happen after the advent of the crazy foday sankoh ,i suspect every human being. we all have the monster in us. not all sierra leoneans took part in the mascaras but the result affect every citizen of> > that country. when some Gambians are today calling tribal discussion intellectual ,they don't know what they are talking about. racism is the biggest reason many people where murdered without any remorse. what is the difference between racism and tribalism? human beings can do the must heinous crimes for flimsy reasons. that is why
i think it is unhealhty to try to wind-up each other. yes ,all things being equal ,i too careless who talks about me or my tribe but is that how the majority will react? let us look far ahead then we will never be caught up in an unnecessary blood shed.> > thanks yusu and dave.> > Yusupha Jow wrote: Suntou:> > I don't think you should look too much into these pieces. They are simply the opinions of individuals; nothing more, nothing less. They do not reflect the majority view of Gambians which is why they are op-ed pieces that the Gambia Echo and Freedom Newspaper do not endorse. In this respect, I don't think there is anything wrong with the Freedom Newspaper or Gambia Echo carrying these pieces. If anything, it gives us insights, albeit sometimes disturbing to us, into some views about the issue of tribalism as it pertains to Gambia.> >> > You will never catch me wading into such debates simply because I really don't have much to contribute to them. While I lived in The
Gambia like our so-called experts on this matter, I chose very early on to deal with human beings on the basis of their merits or demerits as human beings; not because of what language they happened to speak. I am sure many Gambians feel the same way.> >> > Rest assured that no amount of articles on The Gambia Echo or Freedom Newspaper will ever change this fact. Take a deep breath and relax brother.> >> > Thanks> > Yusupha> >> > On Feb 18, 2008 10:59 AM, SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:> > www.thegambiaecho.com> >> > by now you must have probably read what saint Mathew have to say in defence of colonel sam. it is sad that still people are trying to get some glory out of an irrelevant topic like discussing tribalism. who will degrade his/her own race,tribe or language for another? throughout history ,it has never been the case among whites. it is mostly we non-whites who try to vilify our race or culture for another . the important thing here is ,men who are teir fifties or late
forties are still trapped with infant brains. what was Mathew thinking or can i put it frankly what did he take before writing his piece? this is exposing some thing unpleasant among the Gambian family. time will tell. we need honest and season intellectuals to discuss issues of history and culture. but any one who trust his command of English taping on his computer sending inaccurate and misleading historical account is dangerous. Africa is fill with self-crown intellectual who need proper training on> > the field of intellectual discourse. we the young ones are left with no option to but take issues in our own hand .where are Gambia's honest intellectuals? i mean men of the calibre of Dr Sulayamn Nyang and some others with little exposure? the sam and mkj are not what we need going round in nonsensical circles ,writing about issues they don't have any glue about. what benefit do we gain from discussing this irrelevant topic? i suggest we start discussing the reasons that
lead the west to rule over us even though collectively our population is far more than they are. what are the key reasons behind our disorganisation and lack of proper institutions that can cater for every John ,aplha, sainey or malang? from Nigeria to Zimbabwe. form Dakar to ivory coast. why are we still languishing in the past? this are some serious issues African or Gambian need discussing. with a proper governance ,issues or Tribe is completely irrelevant. on a second thought ,what ever is> > happening in other African countries can happen in the Gambia ,why ,disgruntle colonels and unstable journalist can lead us to a path which will be completely misguided and dangerous. we need to watch out and learn from others mistakes.> >> >> >> >> >> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤> > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface> > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html> >> > To Search in the
Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l> > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:> > [log in to unmask]> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤> >> > _________________________________________________________________> Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?> http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface> at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html> > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l> To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:> [log in to unmask]> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤> > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view
archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface> at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html> > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l> To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:> [log in to unmask]> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤> 
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