On Mar 06, 2007, at 3:32 pm, Paleo Phil wrote:
> 
> > Damage to the intestinal villi and microvilli is one example of
> > this sort of
> > damage. It's common among celiacs; some never recover from it. ...

Ashley Moran:
> Until I read that I thought all coeliacs recovered from the damage to
> their intestines.  

It's called refractory sprue or refractory celiac disease. How much is due
to not sticking to gluten-free completely and how much is due to continuing
to eat other modern foods is not known, but it is believed that a point of
no return can be reached by some people.

"Researchers agree that most cases of refractory sprue develop in people who
were diagnosed very late in life or who didn't follow the diet completely."
http://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=877&sid=2KAJFV1FE2kL5xg-00105103
187.70

> Sounds like there's a lot of things that can go
> permanently wrong with your digestion if you stay on a bad diet for
> too long.

It's appears that way. You'll notice that Cordain and Audette don't claim
that everyone with diseases of civilization is cured by their diets. Also,
some of the "acne cure" patients that write letters of thanks to Cordain say
their acne is mostly cleared up, but not entirely. 

> This makes me mad.  I'm not so bothered about having lost years of my
> life to sickness - I've got enough left to not worry too much.  What
> gets me is that all the stuff I was told to eat "because it's good
> for you" has left me with permanent damage. 

While it's probably a good idea to come to terms with remaining health
problems, I wouldn't totally give up hope yet that they might improve
further. After all, Paleo dieting is still fairly new so not many people
have been doing it for very long.

> Now admittedly I got off
> relatively lightly, but it is frustrating to think my body might
> never function as well as it should.  (End rant)

Well, remember that even Paleolithic people deteriorated with age, so it's
something anyone who lives long enough must come to terms with. However, it
is indeed frustrating that the rate of deterioration could have been slowed
through better diet had we known better. Perhaps it's good to get angry over
it and channel that energy into some sort of positive action. 

> 
> Incidentally, I've just ordered 90x 20mg zinc citrate + 1.25mg copper
> gluconate.  Any idea what dose I should start on to see if I've got a
> problem with zinc absorption?
> 
> Ashley

Warning: This is based only on my own experience and research, so please do
your own checking before going above 30 mg / day (you may find something
that I missed). I have seen claims that going above 30 mg / day is risky,
but the opinions vary widely on the maximum safe/recommended long-term
supplement amount (from about 15mg/day up to 100mg per day--there appears to
be no upper limit on the safe amount of zinc from foods). I decided that the
risk is probably not that high for me because zinc doses commonly come in
amounts up to 100mg per tablet (if this level were unsafe we probably should
have heard about numerous cases of side effects by now), zinc deficiency
runs in my family, I have symptoms of zinc deficiency (acne and white spots
on fingernails), and my symptoms don't respond satisfactorily unless I take
100+mg of zinc/day. Plus, I deal with the main risk of
copper-deficiency-induced anemia by taking copper. My symptoms really do
well on 125-130 mg /day but I try to keep it down at about 100 mg / day
because that seems to be the level where some studies find a long-term risk
(though even here the studies are not conclusive and some of the patients
studied likely were not zinc deficient).

20mg is a good dose because it's fairly small and you can take multiple tabs
to gradually increase the dose instead of having to cut up a larger dose. I
would try 20mg for a few days to a week. If that doesn't work I would
increase to 40mg and try again for a few days, increasing to a level you are
comfortable with. If you hit 100-130 mg with no response then zinc may not
work for you.

If anyone has any cautions or advice to add feel free, because I don't claim
to be an expert on zinc.