> On Jan 1, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Philip wrote:
> 
> >
> > Warning: the Greens+ product that Sam Graci created and sells
> > contains the following non-Paleo ingredients:
> >
> > Soy Lecithin
> > Barley Grass Powder
> > Wheat Grass Powder
> > Hydroponic Soy Sprouts
> > Brown Rice Bran
> > Sprouted Barley Malt
> > Alfalfa Grass Powder
> >
> > Graci promotes "green drinks," of which his is one of the top
> > sellers, and other non-Paleo foods in The Bone-Building Solution.

ginny wilken wrote:
> I do avoid soy,

I try to avoid it also. Soy is not considered Paleo by most (though S. Boyd
Eaton allowed for fermented soy and other fermented legumes in his book and
in an interview or two--I don't what his current position is on that), and I
know a lot of Paleo dieters try to avoid soy, which is why I provided the
information on the advocacy of fermented soy in The Bone-Building Solution
and the existence of soy lecithin and soy sprouts in Greens+ (soy lecithin
is in many manufactured food products, not just Greens+, so it is difficult
to avoid completely). Also, I had what appeared to be bad reactions to
accidentally ingested soy ingredients during my early sensitive period of
Paleo dieting. I can now consume foods containing small amounts of soy or
soy lecithin without noticeable reaction, but I still try to avoid it.

> and I do
> agonize over the small bits of bran here and there,

Well, at least the rice bran in Greens+ is not as bad as wheat bran. You are
right, though, that it's not Paleo or healthy.

> but grass
> powders
> certainly are Paleo except for the concentration thereof, 

Why do you consider grass powders like barley and wheat grass powder to be
Paleo? As far as I know, Paleolithic peoples generally ate animals that ate
grasses rather than the grasses themselves (except perhaps the seeds as an
occasional "starvation food" or small supplement to the regular diet in the
limited regions where cereal grain grasses grew--and I can imagine them
perhaps eating some young sprouting grasses when desperate, though I don't
have any evidence of this and it doesn't appear to have been a staple food,
nor is it a staple among any modern HG peoples that I know about). 

We don't have the multiple stomachs that grazing animals have to digest
grasses and we don't have the necessary levels of certain enzymes to digest
and neutralize the toxins of the seeds of grain grasses that birds have
(though other types of seeds, such as sunflower seeds and flax seeds, are
apparently not toxic to humans--though that is a topic for another
discussion). I also thought it was generally agreed that wheat is the most
unhealthy cereal grass and that it's seeds are one of the most unhealthy
staples in the SAD. Do you feel that eating wheat grass before it goes to
seed is Paleo? If so, can you direct me to where I can find evidence of
this, as I wasn't able to find any when I searched this topic in the past. I
assume the evidence would probably be mainly observations of modern HG's
eating young grass, because I can't imagine that grass meal remnants would
survive over the millennia the way cereal grass seed meal remnants can. 

Also, as you point out, Paleolithic people certainly didn't process grass
into powders and add other manufactured ingredients like soy lecithin. They
didn't have the machinery for this. A customer at a vitamin/herb/health food
I once worked for told me that soy lecithin is "a poison" and "the sludge
that is a byproduct of processing soy." The Weston A. Price Foundation
reports the following at their Website: "Soybean lecithin comes from sludge
left after crude soy oil goes through a 'degumming' process."

> and I feel
> they offer valuable nutrition, especially in stressful times like a
> pregnancy. 

I wouldn't mess around with stuff like wheat grass powder and soy lecithin
when it comes to a developing fetus--certainly not as an expensive "health
food supplement"--but to each their own I guess.

> There are other products with better formulation than his.

Indeed, the vitamin/herb/health food store I worked at store sold most of
them. None of them were purely Paleo, however, nor have I seen any that are.
By working at that store I learned that there are a lot of "health food" and
"natural" products that are bogus and I consider green powders to be among
those, though not the worst offenders. Being open minded, I even tried one
of the green powders that had fewer offending ingredients in it after a
Naturopath recommended it, but didn't notice any benefit from it and the
taste and mouth feel when mixed in a beverage left much to be desired. I
forget what it was called. 

One customer decided whether Greens+ was good for her or not by holding a
container of the product and leaning this way and that to detect positive or
negative vibes (which she explained as she was doing it). She concluded that
the vibes were positive and the product was therefore good for her. It
didn't appear to help with any of her numerous health problems, however
(though it did help her purse lose weight ;-) ), but she was convinced that
she was receiving some kind of benefit from it. I felt bad selling some of
what became increasingly clear to me where sham products (even the owner of
the store clearly recognized that some of the products were ineffective),
but I rationalized it somewhat by saying to myself that these people were at
least getting a psychological benefit from these products, and they might
get other health benefits via the mind/body effect. I didn't push
questionable products like the green powders and wheat grass juice, but I
couldn't discourage customers from buying them either and keep my job. I
just hope that these products are not doing serious harm to anyone and I'm
glad I'm not selling the stuff any more. 

A coworker at the store told me that wheat grass juice is supposed to be
good for you, but she revealed that she felt nauseous each time after
drinking it and even vomited once. I asked her, "If it makes you sick, why
do you drink it?" She realized that was a good question and stopped drinking
the stuff.