> Date:    Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:37:23 -0500
> From:    =?windows-1252?Q?Philip?= <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Cooking Fats - was Re: Christmas Pudding
>
> Thanks for your input, Carrie. Lots of stuff to respond to here. Hope =
> you
> don't mind my long-winded answers. ;-)

*** Not at all. Nothing better than a pleasant and polite exchange of ideas.

> No, not raw milk. Those were just examples meant to show that, in my =
> past
> experience, switching to somewhat less-processed foods didn't make a
> noticeable difference for me.  I don't =
> feel
> a burning desire to start consuming raw milk.

*** Nor should you start. I just wanted to point out that whole milk, if 
homogenized and pasteurized, is far from unprocessed.

> I seem to be
> lactose intolerant too, though I wasn't tested on that. Even raw milk
> contains casein and whey, so it doesn't seem wise for me to mess with =
> it.

*** Not for you, no. I have seen people who could not tolerate cooked milk 
tolerate raw milk just fine. I'm not advocating milk as Paleo since it 
would, at best, been an occasional windfall item in the event a lactating 
animal was killed. Some people seem totally unwilling to quit with the 
dairy, though. People such as my husband. For him, I think raw goats milk 
from our own goats is much healthier than storebought.

> You can let us know how it works out for you if =
> you
> like.

*** For me and my husband, it's working fine. I forbade dairy in the house 
for a while, but he kept drinking it in his coffee away from home. When we 
started with the raw goats milk, he could no longer stand the taste of 
commercial milk--it tastes dead, for lack of better word. I have not noticed 
any ill effects from the raw milk, but on one occasion when I drank a glass 
of pasteurized milk (to be polite and respect my grandfather) I felt ill 
afterward and suffered digestive disturbance.
>
> Fallon and Enig promote organic raw milk in Nourishing Traditions
> (http://www.westonaprice.org/children/feeding.html), where they say, =
> "The
> addition of gelatin to cow's milk formula will make it more digestible =
> for
> the infant." If humans have adapted to consuming raw organic cow's milk, =
> why
> would human babies need something added to it to "make it more =
> digestible"?

*** In their defense, they do not recommend feeding cow's milk to 
babies--Fallon is adamant about breast milk, but offers the material you 
quoted to mothers unable to produce enough.

> I think you mentioned that you felt you were missing something when you
> didn't eat dairy products. Do you have an idea of what you were missing?

*** I wasn't missing anything from not drinking milk, but I am fond of 
cheese, and raw cheeses I make myself cause me no trouble. More importantly, 
my husband, who is not at all committed to Paleo, will leave off the 
commercial products that make him sick in favor of raw milk which doesn't 
(once he got over the horror of drinking raw milk).
>
> Your posts remind me of the writings of Sally Fallon and Mary Enig that =
> I've
> read. Do you mind if I ask where you got your information that raw milk =
> is
> healthy? If you are familiar with their writings, perhaps you can share =
> with
> me something I've been unable to find about the traditional diets =
> model--the
> underlying mechanism that explains how and why it works. Is it rapid =
> (less
> than 10,000-40,000 years) evolutionary adaptation?

*** Raw milk is not healthy for everyone. As for Fallon and Enig's writings: 
Is it rapid evolutionary adaptation? In part, yes. They speculate that in 
isolated populations that depend on milk products for protein, if 
lactose-tolerant folks had 1% more kids than intolerant, the population 
could go from having 5% lactose-tolerant individuals to 60% in 400 
generations. More importantly, though, they say that the majority of 
traditional herding societies ferment milk products before consuming them, 
which predigests casein and breaks down lactose. Therefore, even people who 
can't tolerate milk do fine with yoghurt, kefir, clabber, etc. They are also 
big on the enzymes and lactic acid and so forth found in raw and fermented 
products, dairy or otherwise. In any case, I agree that modern commercial 
milk products are hazardous and best avoided.

> Which guru are you referring to? The only source I can think of that =
> might
> advocate an energy bar would be The Paleo Diet for Athletes

*** You've caught me with most of my books still in boxes, but if memory 
serves, I'm thinking of the Eades. Perhaps I'm confused about the various 
"stages", but it seemed that they recommend/allow products (soy!)  made from 
non-paleo ingredients to achieve something similar to our "cave man" 
forbears.

> I examine each claim on its merits, analyzing =
> such
> factors as the evidence, whether or not it fits into a theoretical model =
> of
> nutrition that makes sense, and my own personal experience.

*** Me too! That, and whether I can get my diabetic husband to go for it. If 
that means eating some foods from 10,000 years ago instead of 100,000 years 
ago, so be it, as long as I can avoid the stuff created in the last 100 
years or so.

--Carrie