Thanks for your input, Carrie. Lots of stuff to respond to here. Hope you
don't mind my long-winded answers. ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paleolithic Eating Support List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carrie Coineandubh
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:25 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Cooking Fats - was Re: Christmas Pudding
> 
> 
> >> > From:    =3D?windows-1252?Q?Philip?=3D <[log in to unmask]>
> 
>  So, for example, I don't do well when I eat =
> > organic
> > whole grain hot cereal or whole milk,
> 
> *** Does this include raw milk, or only
> pasteurized/homogenized? I didn't 
> mean to say I was eating grains of any kind, although I do 
> think the more 
> highly processed they are the worse they are. Start out bad 
> and go downhill 
> from there.
> 

No, not raw milk. Those were just examples meant to show that, in my past
experience, switching to somewhat less-processed foods didn't make a
noticeable difference for me. Though I know that other people report
benefits from switching to organic whole grains and whole milk. I don't feel
a burning desire to start consuming raw milk. It's not readily available,
I'm doing fine without it, and my human ancestors survived without it for
nearly 2.5 million years. There weren't too many Paleo H-G's running around
trying to milk aurochs or elk. :-) Plus, a test indicated that I am allergic
to casein, whey, and dairy products in general and both of my sisters had
bad problems with cow's milk in their infancy and youth. I seem to be
lactose intolerant too, though I wasn't tested on that. Even raw milk
contains casein and whey, so it doesn't seem wise for me to mess with it.
Also, I've noticed that too much calcium in a single dose from any form
that's not very absorbable  (including dairy) causes me problems. I tried
colostrum supplements in the past before learning the extent of my problems
with dairy, but they didn't do anything for me. Beyond water, there doesn't
seem to be anything in cow's milk that I handle well. You are of course free
to eat what you want. You can let us know how it works out for you if you
like.

Fallon and Enig promote organic raw milk in Nourishing Traditions
(http://www.westonaprice.org/children/feeding.html), where they say, "The
addition of gelatin to cow's milk formula will make it more digestible for
the infant." If humans have adapted to consuming raw organic cow's milk, why
would human babies need something added to it to "make it more digestible"?
They also admit that "Milk-based formulas often cause allergies...." In
addition, they state, "Raw milk is easier for your baby to digest than
pasteurized and less likely to cause cramps, constipation and allergies."
This indicates that, while it is *less* likely to cause those things, it
still can.

I think you mentioned that you felt you were missing something when you
didn't eat dairy products. Do you have an idea of what you were missing?

Your posts remind me of the writings of Sally Fallon and Mary Enig that I've
read. Do you mind if I ask where you got your information that raw milk is
healthy? If you are familiar with their writings, perhaps you can share with
me something I've been unable to find about the traditional diets model--the
underlying mechanism that explains how and why it works. Is it rapid (less
than 10,000-40,000 years) evolutionary adaptation?

>...
> >  Also, it seems to me that a real =
> > Paleo
> > purist would eat pemmican rather than an energy bar, even a 
> home-made 
> > = bar, wouldn't they? So I don't see opposition to energy bars as 
> > being = non-Paleo.
> 
> *** Depends on which Paleo guru you're talking to--I 
> mentioned (some) energy 
> bars as being in common with canola oil--certainly neither is a paleo 
> ingredient, but both have been recommended by some as 
> consistent with a 
> paleo diet.
> 

Which guru are you referring to? The only source I can think of that might
advocate an energy bar would be The Paleo Diet for Athletes, because that is
geared toward achieving maximum athletic performance rather than optimal
long-term health, so it advocates some non-Paleo things during training, but
that doesn't mean the authors are claiming those things are Paleo or that
they should be a regular part of any diet. Nor does it mean that all Paleo
diet advocates agree with the need for carb supplements to a Paleo diet for
athletic performance (I am skeptical of it myself, though I haven't read the
book).

> > Does that mean I should  say
> > I don't agree with the basic theory of Paleolithic 
> nutrition because I 
> > disagree with Cordain about honey?
> 
> *** Of course not. I agree with the basic theory of Paleo 
> nutrition, and I 
> find all of the authors/advocates to have valuable input.
> 

OK, so just because one author advocates canola oil doesn't mean I have to
throw out everything all advocates of Paleolithic nutrition have said, or
research they've presented, regarding any of the major modern food
categories of dairy, grains or legumes. Nor do I feel the urge to start
eating the foods of one of those modern categories just because one guy may
be wrong about canola. I examine each claim on its merits, analyzing such
factors as the evidence, whether or not it fits into a theoretical model of
nutrition that makes sense, and my own personal experience.

> I 
> think some stray 
> pretty far off the mark from time to time, though, your honey 
> example being 
> a prime one. I've seen modern hunter/gathers risk life and 
> limb to obtain 
> raw honey, and bees predate humans by millions of years, I believe.

Not to mention the honeymen of Africa, who know where every bee hive is and
consume large quantities of honey, bee larvae, honey comb and honey wine.
Interestingly, bee larvae appear to be the favorite part of the bee hive for
both bears and traditional peoples.