I use them because they work and work for me. Honestly, if 1 screen reader
works with them and another doesn't, I think its' the job of the company
that makes the screen reader that doesn't work with it to fix their problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Kim Kline" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Heads up: NortonAntivirus/Norton Internet Security 2007
incompatib...
> You can access most of it with a little bit less than ease with JAWS, but
> with Window-Eyes, forget it. I used to run Norton as well. I bailed
> after
> NAV 2005, when I had two very unsatisfactory tech calls to Symantec, which
> were greatly compounded by the fact that what the support person was
> asking
> me to click on could not be reached in any kind of straightforward manner
> from the keyboard and had to be found with the JAWS cursor. I'll grant
> you
> that most of the day to day stuff in NAV 2006 and older can be accessed
> from JAWS by just using HTML features, but it's when things go wrong that
> the rubber meets the road. If we could always live in the ordinary day to
> day world, we wouldn't need Norton in the first place.
>
> That being said, I will also say that accessibility is a hard thing to
> judge because it means different things to different people. We really
> haven't established a single standard for accessibilityk, and some people
> think that if the program says anything at all, it's accessible, while
> others will hold out for 100% access with no work-arounds. There is a
> newer buzz word starting to make the rounds called usability, because
> there
> is recognition that many of the "accessible" things are very very hard to
> use because work-arounds are sometimes circuitous.
>
> Where things get tricky is when a program can be accessed with one screen
> reader but not another. Is it accessible or not. We could probably argue
> about that all day long, but my point is this: If you design a program to
> follow normal Windows conventions and Windows-style controls, then you
> really don't have to worry about what screen reader someone is running.
>
> Symantec apparently cares more about being jazzy and different than it
> cares about who might or might not be able to use their stuff. The truth
> is, there is a lot of stuff that they miss anyway, so I ditched them on
> that basis.
>
> 73, de Lou K2LKK
>
>
>
> At 01:07 PM 9/24/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>>not true, their products have been accessible for the last 7 years that
>>I've
>>been using them. I know a chosen few say they're not accessible but I can
>>only guess they're not willing to actually try it because it's very
>>accessible unless there's something I'm missing. I've fun it ever since
>>MacAfee let me down and have used almost every version right up to 2006. I
>>think my first Norton version was 5.0 but I'd have to look, I still have
>>it.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Louis Kim Kline" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:01 PM
>>Subject: Re: Heads up: NortonAntivirus/Norton Internet Security 2007
>>incompatib...
>>
>>
>> > Hi.
>> >
>> > Actually, I'd like to see the NFB bring a lawsuit against Symantec like
>> > they did to AOL a few years ago. Symantec, which has an attitude very
>> > similar to our favorite radio company, Yaesu, has been asking for it
>> > for a
>> > while.
>> >
>> > 73, de Lou K2LKK
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 11:36 AM 9/24/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>> >> Harvey and all:
>> >>
>> >>I don't know if it'd do any good, but maybe someone on the list would
>> >>like
>> >>to forward this info onto the tech people at Freedom Scientific, so
>> >>that
>> >>they could start designing a fix for the problem for the next major
>> >>Jaws
>> >>upgrade.
>> >>
>> >>In fact, now that I think of it, isn't it about time for Jaws 8.0 to
>> >>come
>> >>out?
>> >>
>> >>I thought the new upgrades came out in September, or at least sometime
>> >>in
>> >>the Fall of each year.
>> >>
>> >>Anyway, this is just a thought.
>> >>
>> >>73 from Tom Behler: KB8TYJ
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>From: "Harvey" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >>Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:24 AM
>> >>Subject: Fw: Heads up: NortonAntivirus/Norton Internet Security 2007
>> >>incompatib...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Keep in mind that this is one person's opinion, but I thought maybe
>> >> > people
>> >> > should see this who are thinking of buying Norton 2007. 73.
>> >> > Harvey Heagy (N.5.H.A.U.)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello, As a long time user of Symantec products, I am saddened to
>> >> > inform
>> >> > everyone that the new Norton 2007 products are no longer compatible
>> >> > with
>> >> > Jaws. After purchasing Norton Internet Security 2007, and performing
>> >> > extensive testing on it, I've determined the following.
>> >> > * A blind person is unable to activate the product without sighted
>> >> > assistance. if Jaws is loaded, the Activation program immediately
>> >> > quits,
>> >> > rather than displaying its dialogs. This happens during the setup
>> >> > process,
>> >> > and causes your installation to be left in an unusable state. Fixing
>> >> > this
>> >> > requires sighted assistance to get through the activation process,
>> >> > at
>> >>which
>> >> > time the product (mostly) repairs itself.
>> >> > * Once the product is installed, configuration is exceedingly
>> >> > difficult.
>> >>The
>> >> > software is completely inaccessible from the keyboard, Unlike it
>> >> > previous
>> >> > versions the interface does not appear to take advantage of the
>> >> > Windows
>> >> > built in html rendering facilities, instead using its own rendering
>> >>method.
>> >> > All configuration must be done with the jaws cursor, and Jaws's
>> >> > ability
>> >> > to
>> >> > see things like buttons is eratic at best. (admittedly, it may be
>> >> > possible
>> >> > to improve this via the use of a tool like Hotspot clicker, but
>> >> > getting
>> >> > to
>> >>a
>> >> > state where you could would require heavy sighted intevention, and
>> >> > its
>> >> > questionable as to whether it would be worth it.) * When the product
>> >> > tries
>> >> > to alert with Jaws loaded (at least on my machine), it instead blue
>> >>screens
>> >> > and reboots. I tested this with the standard antivirus test. Eicar?
>> >> > (not sure on the spelling), which is a harmless .com file intended
>> >> > to
>> >> > do
>> >> > nothing but trigger antivirus products. (all products use this as a
>> >> > standard, "hello world" test.)
>> >> >
>> >> > The combination of the three above points leads me to believe that
>> >> > ongoing
>> >> > persistance with this product would prove fruitless.
>> >> > (Note: while I did not perform testing with Window Eyes, it has been
>> >> > my
>> >> > experience in the past that WE has been less effective at accessing
>> >> > the
>> >> > Norton interfaces when they were accessible, so I have no reason to
>> >>believe,
>> >> > and hence no inclination to try it, that the situation with 2007
>> >> > would
>> >> > be
>> >> > any better, in fact, I suspect it would be dramaticly worse).
>> >> >
>> >> > This message is a heads up to advise others not to buy the Norton
>> >> > 2007 products. if you are a Norton user, stick with 2006, as that
>> >> > is,
>> >> > at
>> >> > least, accessible. If not, then it looks like its now time to find a
>> >> > new
>> >> > package.
>> >> >
>> >
>> > Louis Kim Kline
>> > A.R.S. K2LKK
>> > Home e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> > Work e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> > Work Telephone: (585) 697-5753
>> >
>
> Louis Kim Kline
> A.R.S. K2LKK
> Home e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> Work e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> Work Telephone: (585) 697-5753
>
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