i have to agree with angel here.  I was always taught that you should give 
of the first-fruits because God has blessed you with a job.  You're giving 
to him what belongs to Him!
Jenifer gilley
"Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble 
remembering how to fly."
Author unknown
AIM: jenibear1998
msn
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angel" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: The Second Place Jesus


> Shouldn't we give of the first fruits of what we are given?  Also, if we
> really trusted that God would provide, as my grandmother use to say, we
> would give our tithe off the top and trust God to provide the funds for 
> the
> light bills and such.  I say this as theory as this is what I believe the
> bible says concerning tithing, not what I do myself.  I am very bad as I
> don't tithe at all.  I probably suffer too because of it in ways of which 
> I
> am even unaware.  As God says we ought not to rob God.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:13 PM
> Subject: The Second Place Jesus
>
>
>> This isn't completely finished but good enough to post on echurch.  Once 
>> I
>> have proof read it, I'll post it on my website.
>>
>> Phil.
>>
>>
>> The Second Place Jesus
>>
>> By Phil Scovell
>>
>>      While eating lunch recently, I reached over and turned on my
>> radio.  After finding little of interest on the secular stations,
>> I punched a memory buttons which takes me to one of several local
>> Christian radio stations.  A man was preaching.  I knew his voice
>> but couldn't place it.  The daily program had a few more minutes
>> remaining so I decided to listen in order that I might find out
>> who was doing the teaching.
>>
>>      He caught my interest, because he was teaching on tithing.
>> You know, giving ten percent of your earnings to the church?  I
>> didn't learn anything I hadn't heard before and since the Bible
>> doesn't teach tithing for the New Testament church, I was tempted
>> to change stations.  For some reason, I decided I really did want
>> to know who this man was so I listened.  Quite frankly, I was
>> shocked at some of the things this man was saying so let me
>> explain further.
>>
>>      First let me say that this man is well known all over Denver
>> and beyond.  He pastors one of the largest churches in Denver.  My
>> mom, before she died, was a member of this church for many years.
>> I consider the pastor to be a great man of God.  As you will see,
>> however, I don't agree with anything he teaches about tithing.
>>
>>      One of the first things I heard this man teaching was that
>> the tithe, or giving of a tenth of your income, is the first ten
>> percent.  If you pay all of your bills before tithing, he said
>> that you are not putting God first in your life.  Furthermore, he
>> claimed that God would not bless what you did give unless it was
>> the first ten percent.  Let me make sure you understood what was
>> just said by this pastor of this megachurch.  You absolutely must
>> write your first check to the church, his preferably I'm
>> assuming, or, he said, you are not putting God first in your life.
>> He further said, by way of illustration, if you pay your utility
>> bill before you write a check to the church when related to
>> tithing, that means you are putting your utility company before
>> God.  He even clarified by saying, even if you have enough after
>> paying all your bills, to still give ten percent, this form of
>> tithing will not be blessed of God because it won't be the first
>> ten percent of what you make.  Now, everyone who believes this,
>> stand on your head.  while you are doing that, show me in the
>> Bible where this is taught.  This pastor used Scripture but no
>> Scripture that even remotely said what he was proposing to be
>> Biblical truth.
>>
>>      Then he asked a question.  He said, "Does God have an
>> economy?"  Before he could say another word, I laughed out loud
>> and said, "Yes He does.  He owns everything.  Period.  End of
>> story."  "If I were hungry, I would not tell you: For the world is
>> mine, and the fullness thereof," (Psalm 50:12).  When the pastor
>> continued, he insisted the tithe was God's economy.  Poor God.  He
>> sure has lost a lot over the centuries.  Probably do to the down
>> sizing type sermons many preach today.
>>
>>      It was what the pastor said next that blew me away.  He said,
>> "Did you know that only 12 percent of the members of this church
>> tithe?"  He repeated it twice just in case, I suppose, someone
>> was sleeping and missed it the first time.  I said, once again out
>> loud, "How do you know that, pastor?"  How would he know this?
>> Can you guess?  The only way he could know is if, one, he has
>> checked the offering records the church keeps by name, and two, he
>> would have to somehow know the personal incomes of everybody that
>> comes to his church.  So, how does he know that only 12 percent of
>> his church are tithers?  That's right, he doesn't know.  He said
>> it for effect to try and make people feel badly about not being a
>> tither and thus not being a real part of the church.  In short, he
>> was attempting to control, and to manipulate, people into doing
>> what he believes the Bible teaches.  Any time you are being
>> manipulated or controlled, you are under unholy influence.
>>
>>      Another great pastor in my area once said that you could not
>> even be a deacon, an elder, or on his staff unless you were a
>> tither.  Then he said, "And I check the records to make sure,
>> too."  Does that bother you or is it just me?
>>
>>      Let me tell you something about this megachurch to which I
>> was referring.  The church claims to run 5,000 people through
>> their doors in two mornings services and one evening service.
>> They have a Christian school from K through 12 running well over
>> 1,000 students.  they own property and buildings all over the
>> metro area and they are spreading out.  Sometimes, they buy entire
>> church buildings and properties from churches that have folded or
>> dwindled to the point they can no longer support their own
>> ministry.  I heard from a direct source that this same mega church
>> pays cash for everything they buy or build.  At that time, and
>> this was a good 10 years ago, this mega church purchased a 1.5
>> million dollar building and paid cash for it and it wasn't even
>> their main church facility; it was to start a branch church.  In
>> short, this church has no financial problems but you might
>> otherwise get that impression by listening to the pastor sermon
>> that day.
>>
>>      My mother called me one day many years ago and said something
>> happened at church that was bothering her.  She wanted to know why
>> she felt uncomfortable about it.  She told me the story.
>>
>>      One morning, the pastor got up and told everyone that they,
>> the members, are always giving to the church and that this
>> particular day, the church wanted to give back to its members.
>> Sealed envelopes were then passed out.  Once the members were
>> given permission to open their envelopes, each one contained a
>> single ten dollar bill.  Later, mom said the church was told that
>> 30,000 dollars had been given away that day.  Hold the phone,
>> sister, church ain't over until the fat lady sings so don't get
>> ahead of me now in my story.  The pastor gave further
>> instructions.  You could spend the ten dollars on yourself, give
>> it to someone in need, go out to eat lunch on it after church, not
>> on ten dollars you couldn't, or you could, if you really wanted
>> to, give it back to the church.  What would you do?  My mom put it
>> into the offerings.  Later, the pastor told the church that there
>> offerings that next week, doubled.  I wonder why?  He said that
>> people put their ten dollars back in to the church and gave more
>> on top of that and that was why that single days offerings
>> doubled.  Question.  Does this smack of a spiritual gimmick to
>> you, that is, a marketing tool, or just good church business?
>> Perhaps you even think it is spiritual?  You decide.
>>
>>      This pastor concluded his radio message, it was actually a
>> recording of one of their Sunday services, by emphasizing the
>> absolute importance of putting Jesus first in your life.  Of
>> course, you are barred from doing this very thing unless you give
>> the first ten percent of your income to the Lord.  Well, there
>> goes Jesus again.  Instead of being the Chief Cornerstone of the
>> Body of Christ, The Church, He is relegated to a position behind
>> the tithe.
>>
>>      The Lord showed me the truth about this many years ago.  It
>> is not what you give to God that's important, it is if you are
>> given to God that counts.
>>
>>      For reference material that goes into much more detail, click
>> on one of the links below.
>>
>> Phil.
>>
>> http://www.redwhiteandblue.org/christian/plstexts/GIVEN.HTM
>> http://www.redwhiteandblue.org/christian/plstexts/TITHE.HTM
>>
>> 
>>
>> Has He Ever Crossed Your Mind?
>> www.SafePlaceFellowship.com
>
>