Yes!! There is indeed danger and hurt in that, I do agree that a pastor has
a certain level of authority, almost like a President, but...just as in our
government there are checks and balances  so there has to be a place where a
pastor can be led of God, yet if he wishes to use that power in an ungodly
way someone should say something...I tried to say something, and well, it
wasn't received well! 
I see my husband as the head of our household, but if I think he is making a
bad decision I feel it is my duty to tell him, he can of course still
continue to make the bad decision, but I am here to help him, not just
blindly agree with him.
Rhonda1

-----Original Message-----
From: The Electronic Church [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Kathy Du Bois
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Church controversy again

Well, Brad,
         yes, there is the thought that the 
shepherd should lead the sheep, but I believe 
that the congregational form of governance is to 
prevent a pastor from becoming dictatorial in his 
leadership.  That can cause trouble too.  I 
believe that our Rhonda 1, experienced that type 
of a church once, if memory serves me correctly, 
and she didn't find it to be pleasant.  I believe 
that the balance is struck when the shepherd 
preaches Christ and then, the true sheep will 
follow, as did eventually happen yesterday.  It's 
just unsettling to have all the veterans aligned 
against you, especially when you are so truly 
grateful for their service and what they have done for your freedom.
  Kathy

At 10:42 AM 4/24/2006, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>I know you guys do not worship either flag, it 
>was more for commenting on both sides of the 
>issue. I agree  neither representation ought be 
>there if it causes any brother to stumble, with 
>Greg being the shepherd, it would be my opinion 
>that decision is up to him. 
>Somehow  denominational doctrines tend to put 
>the sheep in the lead. Kind of like the tail 
>wagging the dog isn't it? I feel it is up to the 
>shepherd to lead the sheep, not the other way 
>around. I understand your denominational 
>position, that they can vote Greg off and etc. 
>which to me is not right, it holds back a godly 
>man doing what God is telling him to do for fear 
>of what a congregation might think. That's my 
>one cents worth. One cent you say? Yep, if I say 
>my 2 cents, that would mean I'm done babbling, 
>and you know that never happens lol.
>
>Brad
>
>
>on 04:13 PM 4/23/2006, Kathy Du Bois said:
>
>Hey Brad,
>         I think that you probably already know 
> this, but Greg and I aren't idolizing the 
> Christian flag.  We wouldn't mind if they were 
> both gone.  I know that there is a pledge to 
> the bible and a pledge to the Christian flag, 
> but I don't know either of them and I don't 
> really care if I ever do. My kids know 
> them.  They have to say them at their Christian 
> school, but I don't know them.   The 
> congregation has forced us to keep the flags in 
> plain view, in the middle of worship, so that 
> leaves us wanting to put the Christian flag first.
>         I do understand, to a degree, why the 
> veterans love the flag so much.  I can't 
> imagine being fired upon and worrying about 
> whether you are going to live or die.  As long 
> as you could see that flag, you knew that there 
> was hope for survival.  I have never had to 
> face that circumstance, but I can appreciate 
> it.   However, God still needs first place.
>         You know, you were wondering if 
> Christians  had as strong of a devotion for 
> Christ and His word.  I don't think so.  It was 
> in the concentration camp that Corey Tenboom 
> realized just how precious even one gospel 
> could be.  I don't think that we value Jesus' 
> precious blood as we ought.  All we know is 
> that it saved our hides from eternal damnation 
> and that's good enough.  Very sad.
>Kathy
>
>
>At 04:48 PM 4/23/2006, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>The military folks are well trained, or 
>brainwashed to a degree, on honoring the flag 
>and nation and all of that. Wouldn't it be a 
>real test to see if Christians felt the same way 
>in varying circumstances? Oh, well, it seems you 
>do have that very situation indeed. Hands down 
>it is a Christian representation  which ought go 
>before the American flag. However equally to the 
>fact the American flag ought not serve as a idol 
>or god, neither ought the Christian one, as it 
>wasn't the Christian flag who is god. Your 
>question of whether which ought hold higher 
>honor in a church, a Christian flag or American 
>one, is almost so obvious it is almost 
>redundant. I understand your veterans, but they 
>need to understand Christ died for all people, 
>not just Americans. How then would putting the 
>American flag first be any different than your 
>country putting its own ideals birthed out of 
>its citizens to take God off our money, pledges 
>and courtrooms? The USA need to know its place 
>in existence, and before Christ is not it. I 
>love this country too, but we are a people many 
>times grounded on false security and patriotic 
>piniáta, a shell of patriotism filled with sweet 
>gimme's and fail to see we do have faults and we 
>are not superior in people, God created all 
>equal, but not equal to God himself.
>
>Brad
>
>
>
>on 03:19 PM 4/23/2006, Kathy Du Bois said:
>
>Hi Guys,
>         Well, it looks like Greg and I might be 
> in a bit of the thick of it 
> again.  Unfortunately, it isn't because of 
> doctrine or anything like that, it's over the 
> position of the flags in our church.  It would 
> be interesting to see if you guys have anything to say about it.
>         The Bangor area is pretty 
> military.  Our airport doubles as a civilian 
> airport and a military base.  We have the 
> longest runway in  the country, so I'm told 
> because of this union.  Many of the troops who 
> are either flying overseas, or returning home, 
> go through Bangor Maine.  We have a group of 
> people, in the area, who have established 
> themselves as troop greeters to give them a 
> warm American send off or welcome no matter 
> what time the military plane arrives, day or 
> night.  A few of the members of our 
> congregation participate in this.  Hopefully, 
> this helps to set the stage for what blew up today.
>           The church has always had two flags 
> in the front of the sanctuary.  One is the 
> American flag and one is the Christian 
> flag.  In flag protocol, established by the 
> military in the early 1800s, the flag of the 
> highest honor is supposed to be positioned to 
> the right of the speaker.  In a church, this 
> would mean to the right of the pastor.  Well, 
> this protocol was established before the 
> Christian flag was even created so it doesn't 
> mention the Christian flag or how to deal with 
> it at all.  Some pastors have opted to just 
> remove the flags from the sanctuary altogether 
> to stop the bickering, but our congregation 
> wants the flags to remain.  This leaves us with 
> an interesting dilemma, which flag  should receive top honors in a church?
>         First of all, I will say very 
> emphatically that Greg and I are both very 
> patriotic.  We love our country and we are 
> grateful to live here.  We have no interest in 
> protesting the war, or the military and we 
> never have, but, we believe that Christ should 
> receive top honor in His sanctuary.  If you go 
> to any of the offices of government, the court 
> house, the town office, or any military 
> establishment, such as the V.F.W. or the 
> American Legion, you won't even see a Christian 
> flag on display  and that is okay.  We may say 
> that we are one nation under God, but we aren't 
> and we aren't insisting that the Christian flag 
> appear anywhere outside the church.  However, 
> as much as I love this country, my first 
> allegiance is to Christ.  I will protest when 
> my country becomes immoral, but I will cling to 
> the cross of Christ no matter who is in earthly power.
>         Well, at our business meeting, it came 
> up today.  The veterans among us are all 
> protesting, some threatening to never come to 
> our church again, because the Christian flag is 
> in the honored position.  I have to say that 
> most of the congregation voted in support of 
> Greg, putting Christ first.  Greg had even 
> talked to an army chaplain on the matter before 
> today and the chaplain agrees with Greg, but 
> never the less, it's a small town, so the winds of trouble are blowing
again.
>         When I arrived home, I looked up the 
> first commandment in Exodus 20:3-6.
>
>         You shall have no other gods before me.
>You shall not make for yourself an idol in the 
>form of anything in heaven above or on the earth 
>beneath or in the waters below.
>You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
>For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, 
>punishing the children for the sins of the 
>fathers to the third and fourth generations of 
>those who hate me, but showing love to a 
>thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
>
>I don't know, perhaps I am making too much of 
>the connection, but I couldn't help but wonder 
>if part of the reason that our society is so 
>messed up today is because other things, such as 
>flags, have replaced our love of the one true God in first place in our
lives.
>
>         Unfortunately, the veterans, in all 
> this, won't hear our point because of their 
> emotional commitment to the flag.  They see us 
> in the same way as they saw the Viet Nam 
> protestors of the 60s and, to be truthful, it 
> is hard for us to respect their commitment to 
> Christ that they would be willing to break up 
> community over this.  We have done services in 
> the past honoring the veterans, but that doesn't seem to be remembered
now.
>Just pray for us Guys.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>Kathy