Hey Brad,
         I think that you probably already know 
this, but Greg and I aren't idolizing the 
Christian flag.  We wouldn't mind if they were 
both gone.  I know that there is a pledge to the 
bible and a pledge to the Christian flag, but I 
don't know either of them and I don't really care 
if I ever do. My kids know them.  They have to 
say them at their Christian school, but I don't 
know them.   The congregation has forced us to 
keep the flags in plain view, in the middle of 
worship, so that leaves us wanting to put the Christian flag first.
         I do understand, to a degree, why the 
veterans love the flag so much.  I can't imagine 
being fired upon and worrying about whether you 
are going to live or die.  As long as you could 
see that flag, you knew that there was hope for 
survival.  I have never had to face that 
circumstance, but I can appreciate it.   However, God still needs first place.
         You know, you were wondering if 
Christians  had as strong of a devotion for 
Christ and His word.  I don't think so.  It was 
in the concentration camp that Corey Tenboom 
realized just how precious even one gospel could 
be.  I don't think that we value Jesus' precious 
blood as we ought.  All we know is that it saved 
our hides from eternal damnation and that's good enough.  Very sad.
Kathy


At 04:48 PM 4/23/2006, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>The military folks are well trained, or 
>brainwashed to a degree, on honoring the flag 
>and nation and all of that. Wouldn't it be a 
>real test to see if Christians felt the same way 
>in varying circumstances? Oh, well, it seems you 
>do have that very situation indeed. Hands down 
>it is a Christian representation  which ought go 
>before the American flag. However equally to the 
>fact the American flag ought not serve as a idol 
>or god, neither ought the Christian one, as it 
>wasn't the Christian flag who is god. Your 
>question of whether which ought hold higher 
>honor in a church, a Christian flag or American 
>one, is almost so obvious it is almost 
>redundant. I understand your veterans, but they 
>need to understand Christ died for all people, 
>not just Americans. How then would putting the 
>American flag first be any different than your 
>country putting its own ideals birthed out of 
>its citizens to take God off our money, pledges 
>and courtrooms? The USA need to know its place 
>in existence, and before Christ is not it. I 
>love this country too, but we are a people many 
>times grounded on false security and patriotic 
>piniáta, a shell of patriotism filled with sweet 
>gimme's and fail to see we do have faults and we 
>are not superior in people, God created all 
>equal, but not equal to God himself.
>
>Brad
>
>
>
>on 03:19 PM 4/23/2006, Kathy Du Bois said:
>
>Hi Guys,
>         Well, it looks like Greg and I might be 
> in a bit of the thick of it 
> again.  Unfortunately, it isn't because of 
> doctrine or anything like that, it's over the 
> position of the flags in our church.  It would 
> be interesting to see if you guys have anything to say about it.
>         The Bangor area is pretty 
> military.  Our airport doubles as a civilian 
> airport and a military base.  We have the 
> longest runway in  the country, so I'm told 
> because of this union.  Many of the troops who 
> are either flying overseas, or returning home, 
> go through Bangor Maine.  We have a group of 
> people, in the area, who have established 
> themselves as troop greeters to give them a 
> warm American send off or welcome no matter 
> what time the military plane arrives, day or 
> night.  A few of the members of our 
> congregation participate in this.  Hopefully, 
> this helps to set the stage for what blew up today.
>           The church has always had two flags 
> in the front of the sanctuary.  One is the 
> American flag and one is the Christian 
> flag.  In flag protocol, established by the 
> military in the early 1800s, the flag of the 
> highest honor is supposed to be positioned to 
> the right of the speaker.  In a church, this 
> would mean to the right of the pastor.  Well, 
> this protocol was established before the 
> Christian flag was even created so it doesn't 
> mention the Christian flag or how to deal with 
> it at all.  Some pastors have opted to just 
> remove the flags from the sanctuary altogether 
> to stop the bickering, but our congregation 
> wants the flags to remain.  This leaves us with 
> an interesting dilemma, which flag  should receive top honors in a church?
>         First of all, I will say very 
> emphatically that Greg and I are both very 
> patriotic.  We love our country and we are 
> grateful to live here.  We have no interest in 
> protesting the war, or the military and we 
> never have, but, we believe that Christ should 
> receive top honor in His sanctuary.  If you go 
> to any of the offices of government, the court 
> house, the town office, or any military 
> establishment, such as the V.F.W. or the 
> American Legion, you won't even see a Christian 
> flag on display  and that is okay.  We may say 
> that we are one nation under God, but we aren't 
> and we aren't insisting that the Christian flag 
> appear anywhere outside the church.  However, 
> as much as I love this country, my first 
> allegiance is to Christ.  I will protest when 
> my country becomes immoral, but I will cling to 
> the cross of Christ no matter who is in earthly power.
>         Well, at our business meeting, it came 
> up today.  The veterans among us are all 
> protesting, some threatening to never come to 
> our church again, because the Christian flag is 
> in the honored position.  I have to say that 
> most of the congregation voted in support of 
> Greg, putting Christ first.  Greg had even 
> talked to an army chaplain on the matter before 
> today and the chaplain agrees with Greg, but 
> never the less, it's a small town, so the winds of trouble are blowing again.
>         When I arrived home, I looked up the 
> first commandment in Exodus 20:3-6.
>
>         You shall have no other gods before me.
>You shall not make for yourself an idol in the 
>form of anything in heaven above or on the earth 
>beneath or in the waters below.
>You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
>For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, 
>punishing the children for the sins of the 
>fathers to the third and fourth generations of 
>those who hate me, but showing love to a 
>thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
>
>I don't know, perhaps I am making too much of 
>the connection, but I couldn't help but wonder 
>if part of the reason that our society is so 
>messed up today is because other things, such as 
>flags, have replaced our love of the one true God in first place in our lives.
>
>         Unfortunately, the veterans, in all 
> this, won't hear our point because of their 
> emotional commitment to the flag.  They see us 
> in the same way as they saw the Viet Nam 
> protestors of the 60s and, to be truthful, it 
> is hard for us to respect their commitment to 
> Christ that they would be willing to break up 
> community over this.  We have done services in 
> the past honoring the veterans, but that doesn't seem to be remembered now.
>Just pray for us Guys.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>Kathy