that is your personal view.thanks.
Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
"haruna, as i always state here,we defer in understanding and comprehension
of the deen." Suntou.
We probably do. However, misunderstanding and mal-comprehension in the deen
of Islam can be mitigated by the Quran, your quoted sunnah, your quoted
Ulamaa, etc. So no problem there.
"i am not out to engage in any lenghty merry go round." Suntou.
There is and will not be a merry go round Suntou. Just share if you
understand or not. If you do not understand, then you will display it again and I
will be forced to challenge your dawah again. That will be the merry go round.
"i understood your point view quiet well. i was again explaining about an
order that start around the person of amadou bamba." Suntou.
I thought you said you were sharing another's view of the sect or faith. How
can you explain another's faith or religion?
"if you think different from what i stated, fine by me." Suntou.
No Suntou. I do not have a thought one way or the other about another's
faith or religion. What I tried to share with you was that Faith and Religion are
different from other matter that you are free to express an opinion on. The
faith is for the adherents. Where the faith affects adherents of other faith
and religion is where it goes beyond its own bounds and must be challenged.
Sort of like the Ahmadiyya translation of the Quran into Mandinka, WOllof,
etc.
"in here ,whatever one state others have their own take on it." Suntou.
Except the faith and religion of others. Anything else is fair game Suntou.
You cannot have an opinion on another's faith or religion just like another
cannot have an opinion on your faith and religion. Ask somebody else about the
wisdom in this dispensation.
"that is what make it better to engage in communal discussions." Suntou.
Communal engagement stops at community members' faiths and religions for
salvation. Any community where its members engage in debate of each other's
faiths and religion, is a community that will be short-lived. Think about it. We
can share information on our faiths and religions with each other (dawah), but
it is counter-productive to qualify, assess, or render opinion on the faith
or religion of other. Allah I hope I am understood.
"i am not out to influence any ones way of thinking," Suntou.
What is your intent in sharing your opinion on the faith of another then
Suntou? Unless of course you are Mouride and we were not made aware.
"i am merely putting my points across. people have the rights and freedom to
think for themselves." Suntou.
Yes Suntou. But not on another's faith and religion.
"in your quest to understand me, you very much misunderstood were i am
coming from." Suntou.
No Suntou. I was not on a quest to understand you where religion and faith
are concerned. That will be a foolhardy quest on my part. I shared advice in
propriety.
"sadly, we will continue to analyse each others statement with the wrong
understandings and misjudgements." Suntou.
No we will not. There is not enough time for that and besides the mere
understanding of another's statement is not terribly valuable. Understanding with
a view to improving oneself is more valuable.
"i am very familiar with brother Estes and his dawah team and i follow him
and other scholars of ahul sunah wal jamah. i know what i am saying, even if
you think i don't.thanks any way." Suntou.
All I did was share with you what da'wah means. It is an arabic word. All
religions have their own interpretation of what da'wah means. That is why it is
not advisable to conduct da'wah by opining on another's faith and religion.
Allah told us that much.
"as for the mo Ibrahim website, i made it clear i watch a program of it, the
website i forward was what the TV Chanel showed." Suntou.
I know.
"i know you are capable of making your own decisions, certainly i have never
helped you make any decision in life, so i don't mean to offend you ,just a
minor contribution." Suntou.
I am not terribly worried about myself. In a community, we must always be
mindful of others and our impressionable youth. Plus, I always look forward to
value from your contributions here not necessarily to change my mind or view
on a certain issue.
"your advice on this one is misplaced. thanks for the contribution." Suntou.
Very well. Will you then yield until we have a Mouride in our community
here? That way they will have an opportunity to challenge your qualifications and
assessments. I am sure like you were insensed by Samsudeen's ire on the
deceased, you wouldn't want to discuss persons absent from this here community.
"as for your comments about abubacarr and abu adar dah. it is rather
unfortunate such statements coming from you." Suntou.
Very well. You shared their shagrin with us. Albeit incompletely.
"understand the context of their comments. they were humble and God fearing
individuals." Suntou.
I should think they were God-fearing for they recognised their shortcomings
in that realm. That still does not absolve them from propriety in asking for
advice from Muhammad. I am confident you are God-fearing too. You still must
be trained on propriety every day or we don't wanna hear your complaints.
"the hadith convey their mere fear that engaging in worldly endeavours made
them loose out on valuable time which may rather be spend on acts of
worship." Suntou.
What would you do if you recognize that you cannot moderate in all your
engagements, worldly or not? Would you call a conference with Muhammad or would
you begin to temper your engagements? I can't hear you. Why would you burden
Muhammad with advice on something you do not share with him completely???
If you will be disappointed in me calling Abubakr and his friend
knuckleheads, please remember what about them you wish to share with us. In fact what
does that story you shared about the duo have to do with Suntou sharing hearsay
about Mourides? There is no moderation there.
Please be considerate. That's all I'm urging. I could have just challenged
what you shared that you heard about Mouridism etcetera. But I did not want to
engage in discussion of others' faith and religion that is why I counseled
prudence for you.
Masoud. MQDT. Darbo. AL Mutawakkil.
"wise man,i read your advice and truely i was indeed flatered.thanks but i
am
within the bounderies.i balance my life and on the centre is my faith."
Suntou.
Very well.
"i did not insult any body neither did i made any derogatory remark against
any
person or group." Suntou.
Generally it is best to receive advice from friends and community members
before a crime is committed.
"what was stated is what i heard concening that group of people." Suntou.
Exactly. What you heard from other people regarding a certain other person's
belief and religion. If ever so slightly, you risked going outside the
bounds of your own belief and religion. What did Allah say about hearsay
again?
"i will continue to do dawah the way the scholars recommend it." Suntou.
The idea is to discern the colour of the scholars. I do not think you mean
Christian scholars, or Mormon scholars, or Ahmadiyya scholars, or Mouride
Scholars do you?
"if anyone think that make me a munafik," Suntou.
No Suntou. Think! How can anyone think that following the edicts of your
religion makes you Munaafiq? What I want you to do is review the edicts of
Dawah
or evangelism. At the base is the propagation of your belief and or
religion.
Now then you must understand that other religions and beliefs also have
edicts for their Dawah. You don't believe do you? The devil is in the manner
and
fashion of Dawah. Read what Allah teaches you about Dawah.
"then that is that person's opinion." Suntou.
It will have been an erroneous opinion. Qualifying one's religion or faith
is not Opining. It is dishonest castigation. So if anyone says you are
Munaafiq
for following your faith or religious edicts, send them to me. The idea of
religion is harmonious co-existence on earth. The worship of a supreme being
is manifestation of humility and recognition of creation.
"even sahabas of the prophet muhammad (pbuh) were afraid of themself being a
munafik let alone poor old suntou." Suntou.
Have you ever tried to figure out why those sahabas of your prophet would be
afraid of being Munaafiqs?
"the story of Abubacar and Abu adar adah can be recall here.the two very
strong sahabas one day fear that their business and private life is taking
them
away from the remembaranance of Allah." Suntou.
That seems to me a personal problem of Abubakar and Abu adar Adah. Maybe if
they were trained on propriety and moderation, they will not have been
afraid.
What does that have to do with Suntou and his faith. Besides I think those
two are struggling with their faith as you are now.
["they meet on the street and proceed to the messenger of Allah .they
narated their fears that the worldly materail things make them forget to
enegage in
the remembarance of Allah.they told the propeht that ''when we are with are
our familes and in business we forget to remember Allah ,we think we are now
munafiks ''.the prophet answered them that'' there is a time for worship and
time for other world things.what ever one do if you have the conscious and
fear of Allah it is worship''.] Suntou.
Helas!! Eureka. Suntou, did you understand your prophet Muhammad's (Salla
Llaahu alaihi Wa-Sallam) advice to the two knuckleheads? Again what does
that
have to do with Suntou's Dawah? You notice they did not share with the
prophet
Muhammad what it was that makes them jittery. You could get more clues from
these conversations you rely on if you are trained on propriety in religion.
Whatever religion.
[sheik Anta diop says ''with a clear conscience fear no accussation''.]
Suntou.
Exactly. Suntou, you know I like Cheikh Anta Diop, perhaps for different
reasons than you, but read again what he shares immediately above. To the
two
knuckleheads, if their conscience was clear and they were trained on
propriety
all along, Allah will not have created doubts of Munfiqr in their minds. And
Allah is all knowing. Don't let the zeal of Dawah lead you astray to offend
Allah.
"i am not an extremist," Suntou.
Suntou, I think extremism is qualified by its affect on your fellow citizen
or human. Have you ever heard any sane individual say he/she is not an
extremist? Your extremism is recognized by the perceiver of your extremism.
If you
are afraid of being an extremist, then temper your debilitating affect on
your community, fellow citizen, and fellow human. You wouldn't know the
colour
of your extremism if it hit you upside the head.
"neither a human right violator." Suntou.
The right to association for worship and industry is an inherent human
right. Are you bearing irresponsibly on another's right to this inalienable
right?
That is the question you ought to be asking yourself. If I were you I will
begin today by abandoning the quip: I am not or I am a human right violator.
I
would hone in on the particular right in question and determine the quality
of my affect on it for other. That is how we get rehabilitated. Funny words
like human rights violator are too vague and they offer sanctuary for the
idiot violator. Suntou you're making me upset. You should have just thanked
me
for the advice and choose to or not to heed it. It would have been more
appreciative of you. And I have a feeling you did not understand the advice
because
I have the funny feeling you thought I was calling you a Munaafiq. Read it
again for God's sakes. You must be confident that Munaafiqs actually know
who
they are. If Abubakr and the other fella did not have conscience problems,
they
would have shared with the prophet what exactly they felt was making them
uneasy instead of the cockamayme story about "when we are in business and
with
our families shit happens to us". Why does being in honest business
interfere
with their faith if indeed they had believed? What you should have used that
example in is to show the trials of journeys toward faith. You would have
done good Dawah then. Now you see what I'm sharing with you don't you?
"my recommendation haruna is to add the web page of mo ibrahim to the global
democracy project .here is the link." Suntou.
I'm sorry I didn't understand. You mind telling me why you think I ought to
add Mo Ibrahim's web page to The Global Democracy Project? If it is good
advice, I will thank you for it and heed it. If it is not good advice, I
will
thank you for it anyway but I will share with you my view on it. That may
turn
out to be good advice for you in the end. And I expect your behind to thank
me
for it unconditionally.
"i was watching a programm on it today." Suntou.
Well what did you learn that may be valuable to me or The GDP? You Muslings
don't even know how to add value to your fellow human if your lives depended
on it. Dawah my left eyelash.
_http://www.moibrahimfoundation.org/expert-views.asp_
(http://www.moibrahimfoundation.org/expert-views.asp) Suntou.
Thank you for the URL. I shall visit when time allows me. You could have
given us an idea of what you're talking about. Oh by the way, I read your
piece
at The Echo and besides a bit more editing, it was a good piece. I hope you
read it out loud to yourself before submitting it or did you submit it
before
the blogging advice I shared?
Oh Suntou my dear. How do you suppose your Dawah will yield value for you
when you castigate others' faiths in the process. It seems to me an
expensive
and foolhardy way to go about Dawah. And don't tell me your prophets told
you
that is how you complete Dawah. What in the name of Religion???????
Sheikh Masoud. MQDT. Darbo. AL Mu'Umin. I feel like sharing another
installment from Julius Caesar I think will be appropriate here. It talks
about Dawah
and snakes in green grass and circumstance. Anyway, Suntou I strongly
recommend you read my advice to you again. If possible, allow another of
your
school mates to read it and share their opinions with you on it. Jesus
friggin
Muhammad
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