One will never know, but then were the others? The difference was, they
were prayed for by Jesus and he was not, and therefore didn't receive the
grace from God to withstand till the end and to receive true salvation when
he rose from the dead. He and they, as far as I can see were on basically
the same level of spiritual development before Jesus' rising. There were
those with more development than others St. John is an example as Our Lord
committed the care of his dear mother to him. I do believe this is why he
was never martyred. Not only did he have that added responsibility, but he
seemed to be the one closest to our lord. I believe Judas if he had had the
strength to wait to find the ultimate understanding would have proven just
as faithful. Alas it was not meant to be. It causes us to better
understand the weakness of human frailty without the blessed intersession.
----- Original Message -----
From: jen and Star <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Poor Judas
> THIS IS TRUE... WHAT I MEANT OT SAY WAS DO U THINK THAT JUDAS REALLY
BELIEVE
> OR WAS A FOLLOWER IN THE FIRST PLACE.
> Jen and MAMA-Star
> "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble
> remembering how to fly."
> Author unknown
> AIM: jenibear1998
> msn
> [log in to unmask]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Poor Judas
>
>
> > He couldn't have been as Jesus hadn't been resurrected. None were saved
> > till he was risen. That was the point of his rising in the first place.
> > If
> > he were this would have nullified his resurrection.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jen and Star <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Poor Judas
> >
> >
> >> but... here's a question. was judas *saved* in the first place?
> >> Jen and MAMA-Star
> >> "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble
> >> remembering how to fly."
> >> Author unknown
> >> AIM: jenibear1998
> >> msn
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:51 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Poor Judas
> >>
> >>
> >> > It truly is a puzzler isn't it. I guess that sort of screws up the
> >> > idea
> >> > of
> >> > being eternally save doesn't it. My sister is a Baptist and that is
> > what
> >> > she believes. If Jesus knew Judas would never attain salvation why
> >> > then
> >> > did
> >> > he make him a disciple in the first place. God certainly could have
> > sent
> >> > him help during his depression to cause him to live and see the
rising
> > of
> >> > Our Lord and receive salvation? Perhaps he was predestined as was
the
> >> > Jesus' mother for this fate. She was predestined after all. However
> >> > as
> >> > they didn't fully realize their positions in the greater scheme of
> > things,
> >> > well, perhaps Mary did, we don't understand our own predestony.
> >> > Another
> >> > question to ponder. If Judas was predestined to fall and to fail
then
> > he
> >> > truly had no choice which causes him to even be a more sorrowful
> >> > character.
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: MV <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:43 AM
> >> > Subject: Poor Judas
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Angel,
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree we are predestined to use our free will as we both made
> >> >> mention
> >> >> in
> >> >> an earlier post and I'm not even Catholic *big cheezy smile*,
actually
> >> >> I'm
> >> >> probably a denominational mutt having grown up Lutheran, married in
a
> >> >> Moravian church, served in a couple non-denominational churches, as
> > well
> >> > as
> >> >> one inter-denominational church, recently came from a Baptist church
> > and
> >> >> now attending an Assembly of God that seems to have balance apart
from
> >> >> other O G churches I'll not make mention here. I've moved a few
times
> > in
> >> > my
> >> >> life which caused me to look about and search out churches making a
> >> >> difference and teaching the word. Anyway that wasn't my point of
this
> >> > email
> >> >> I guess I just realized I guess I'm a freewiller as to grasping the
> > Word
> >> >> for what it is and not so much a denominational marriage, which
there
> > is
> >> >> nothing wrong with that, I guess I just hadn't taken that road.
Anyway
> > My
> >> >> real point is, actually there are two, are...
> >> >>
> >> >> Point #1, you mentioned about we are predestined to freewill. But
also
> >> > said...
> >> >>
> >> >> "This is why I have always felt sorry for Judas. He was the one God
> > had
> >> >> planned to betray Jesus."
> >> >>
> >> >> Are you saying he was predestined but we're not? I think I had
> >> >> wondered
> >> >> this here before on list that if Judas hadn't chose to follow
through,
> >> >> would someone else have stepped up? I'm thinking of another person
at
> > a
> >> >> critical time of history who had a choice. Ester when her uncle told
> > her
> >> >> upon her unwillingness to plead to the king on behalf of the Jews...
> >> >> "For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will
> > arise
> >> >> for the Jews from another place and you and your father's house will
> >> >> perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such
a
> >> > time
> >> >> as this?"-- Ester 4:14
> >> >>
> >> >> So it appears as Ester had a choice and God would see to it this
thing
> >> >> would be accomplished one way or the other. Such could also be said
> >> >> for
> >> >> Judas I wonder.
> >> >>
> >> >> Point #2 is I always had questioned whether or not Judas was
actually
> > a
> >> >> gonner spiritually. I mean it seemed unfair, especially if he was
> > somehow
> >> >> destined to be the trigger man of Christ's crucifixion. If you look
he
> >> > felt
> >> >> remorse, gave the 30 pieces of silver back and guilt took over so
much
> > so
> >> >> he hung himself. I had, in my thoughts, questioned preachers when
> >> >> they
> >> >> mentioned Judas is in hell for his betrayal. To me it seemed he must
> > have
> >> >> had a first rate relationship with Christ to be among the twelve,
and
> >> > with
> >> >> all who were after Christ for healing folks right under their noses,
> >> >> on
> >> > the
> >> >> Sabbath yet, they had good reason to go after him without a betray
or
> > so
> >> >> that will be another question for me to wonder. However, after
reading
> >> >> and
> >> >> looking up some definitions of the Scripture in Strong's
> >> >> Greek/Hebrew,
> > I
> >> >> see that Judas indeed, by Jesus' words is in fact a gonner. Jesus
> >> >> said...
> >> >>
> >> >> "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You
have
> >> >> given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the
son
> > of
> >> >> perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." --John 17:12
> >> >>
> >> >> Looking up the word parish in the original it is...
> >> >>
> >> >> NT:622 apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); from NT:575 and the base of
NT:3639;
> >> >> to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or
> >> > figuratively:
> >> >> KJV - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
> >> >>
> >> >> Looking up the word "perdition" it is defined...
> >> >> NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622;
> >> >> ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):
> >> >> KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish,
> >> > pernicious
> >> >> ways, waste.
> >> >>
> >> >> I suppose the latter word could be stretched as to say he only died
> >> >> physically as that is one of it's definitions but that coupled with
> >> >> the prior word being "fully" destroyed, and the fact the two words
> >> >> are
> >> >> connected as a derivative, gives connotation Judas won't be among
> >> >> those
> >> >> we
> >> >> see in eternity with God. It is difficult to see how a man who could
> > walk
> >> >> with Christ as his disciple has fallen, and then look at our own
lives
> >> >> and
> >> >> consider we will not fall eternally despite our sin and levels of
> >> >> betrayal
> >> >> if we accept, believe and trust in Christ. The one guy who you'd
> >> >> expect
> >> >> to have the pardon of pardons, especially if this was a destined
> >> >> position
> >> >> for him somehow, would be Judas. His very part in history provided
the
> >> >> segue for all mankind to have eternal life despite sin. It is
> > definitely
> >> >> perplexing to me.
> >> >>
> >> >> Brad
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Brad
> >> >>
> >> >> Nothing else ruins the truth like stretching it
|
