THIS IS TRUE... WHAT I MEANT OT SAY WAS DO U THINK THAT JUDAS REALLY BELIEVE
OR WAS A FOLLOWER IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Jen and MAMA-Star
"Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble
remembering how to fly."
Author unknown
AIM: jenibear1998
msn
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Poor Judas
> He couldn't have been as Jesus hadn't been resurrected. None were saved
> till he was risen. That was the point of his rising in the first place.
> If
> he were this would have nullified his resurrection.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jen and Star <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Poor Judas
>
>
>> but... here's a question. was judas *saved* in the first place?
>> Jen and MAMA-Star
>> "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble
>> remembering how to fly."
>> Author unknown
>> AIM: jenibear1998
>> msn
>> [log in to unmask]
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: Poor Judas
>>
>>
>> > It truly is a puzzler isn't it. I guess that sort of screws up the
>> > idea
>> > of
>> > being eternally save doesn't it. My sister is a Baptist and that is
> what
>> > she believes. If Jesus knew Judas would never attain salvation why
>> > then
>> > did
>> > he make him a disciple in the first place. God certainly could have
> sent
>> > him help during his depression to cause him to live and see the rising
> of
>> > Our Lord and receive salvation? Perhaps he was predestined as was the
>> > Jesus' mother for this fate. She was predestined after all. However
>> > as
>> > they didn't fully realize their positions in the greater scheme of
> things,
>> > well, perhaps Mary did, we don't understand our own predestony.
>> > Another
>> > question to ponder. If Judas was predestined to fall and to fail then
> he
>> > truly had no choice which causes him to even be a more sorrowful
>> > character.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: MV <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:43 AM
>> > Subject: Poor Judas
>> >
>> >
>> >> Angel,
>> >>
>> >> I agree we are predestined to use our free will as we both made
>> >> mention
>> >> in
>> >> an earlier post and I'm not even Catholic *big cheezy smile*, actually
>> >> I'm
>> >> probably a denominational mutt having grown up Lutheran, married in a
>> >> Moravian church, served in a couple non-denominational churches, as
> well
>> > as
>> >> one inter-denominational church, recently came from a Baptist church
> and
>> >> now attending an Assembly of God that seems to have balance apart from
>> >> other O G churches I'll not make mention here. I've moved a few times
> in
>> > my
>> >> life which caused me to look about and search out churches making a
>> >> difference and teaching the word. Anyway that wasn't my point of this
>> > email
>> >> I guess I just realized I guess I'm a freewiller as to grasping the
> Word
>> >> for what it is and not so much a denominational marriage, which there
> is
>> >> nothing wrong with that, I guess I just hadn't taken that road. Anyway
> My
>> >> real point is, actually there are two, are...
>> >>
>> >> Point #1, you mentioned about we are predestined to freewill. But also
>> > said...
>> >>
>> >> "This is why I have always felt sorry for Judas. He was the one God
> had
>> >> planned to betray Jesus."
>> >>
>> >> Are you saying he was predestined but we're not? I think I had
>> >> wondered
>> >> this here before on list that if Judas hadn't chose to follow through,
>> >> would someone else have stepped up? I'm thinking of another person at
> a
>> >> critical time of history who had a choice. Ester when her uncle told
> her
>> >> upon her unwillingness to plead to the king on behalf of the Jews...
>> >> "For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will
> arise
>> >> for the Jews from another place and you and your father's house will
>> >> perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such a
>> > time
>> >> as this?"-- Ester 4:14
>> >>
>> >> So it appears as Ester had a choice and God would see to it this thing
>> >> would be accomplished one way or the other. Such could also be said
>> >> for
>> >> Judas I wonder.
>> >>
>> >> Point #2 is I always had questioned whether or not Judas was actually
> a
>> >> gonner spiritually. I mean it seemed unfair, especially if he was
> somehow
>> >> destined to be the trigger man of Christ's crucifixion. If you look he
>> > felt
>> >> remorse, gave the 30 pieces of silver back and guilt took over so much
> so
>> >> he hung himself. I had, in my thoughts, questioned preachers when
>> >> they
>> >> mentioned Judas is in hell for his betrayal. To me it seemed he must
> have
>> >> had a first rate relationship with Christ to be among the twelve, and
>> > with
>> >> all who were after Christ for healing folks right under their noses,
>> >> on
>> > the
>> >> Sabbath yet, they had good reason to go after him without a betray or
> so
>> >> that will be another question for me to wonder. However, after reading
>> >> and
>> >> looking up some definitions of the Scripture in Strong's
>> >> Greek/Hebrew,
> I
>> >> see that Judas indeed, by Jesus' words is in fact a gonner. Jesus
>> >> said...
>> >>
>> >> "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have
>> >> given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son
> of
>> >> perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." --John 17:12
>> >>
>> >> Looking up the word parish in the original it is...
>> >>
>> >> NT:622 apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); from NT:575 and the base of NT:3639;
>> >> to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or
>> > figuratively:
>> >> KJV - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
>> >>
>> >> Looking up the word "perdition" it is defined...
>> >> NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622;
>> >> ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):
>> >> KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish,
>> > pernicious
>> >> ways, waste.
>> >>
>> >> I suppose the latter word could be stretched as to say he only died
>> >> physically as that is one of it's definitions but that coupled with
>> >> the prior word being "fully" destroyed, and the fact the two words
>> >> are
>> >> connected as a derivative, gives connotation Judas won't be among
>> >> those
>> >> we
>> >> see in eternity with God. It is difficult to see how a man who could
> walk
>> >> with Christ as his disciple has fallen, and then look at our own lives
>> >> and
>> >> consider we will not fall eternally despite our sin and levels of
>> >> betrayal
>> >> if we accept, believe and trust in Christ. The one guy who you'd
>> >> expect
>> >> to have the pardon of pardons, especially if this was a destined
>> >> position
>> >> for him somehow, would be Judas. His very part in history provided the
>> >> segue for all mankind to have eternal life despite sin. It is
> definitely
>> >> perplexing to me.
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >> Nothing else ruins the truth like stretching it
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