Brad,
My jaw is dropping as I read this!  Are you sure that you are dealing 
with your son and not my son Matthew!  We've just had to lower the 
boom on the boy!  He's actually content to just lay around watching 
anime  and going to his dish washing job.  We did start charging him 
rent finally last October and once he got his drivers license he had 
to start paying his part of the car insurance as well and we really 
rag him about continuing to pay off his debt to Calvin or I'm afraid 
that he'd ignore it.  We've finally let him know that when that debt 
is payed off, he'd better be planning his next step or I'm sure he'd 
be very happy to just hang around here and vegetate and Greg and I 
refuse to support it!  He has no drive, no ambition, no dream and 
he's almost 20.  True, he's a good kid.  ?We get along with him 
pretty well and he doesn't cause the emotional turmoil that Chris 
did, but still, I want to be done with the hands on parenting of this 
guy and begin to watch him fly!    You do learn a lot about God from 
parenting, don't you.
Kathy


At 07:57 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote:
>Ned,
>
>You, in my opinion, have that exact. We are predestined, predestined to
>freewill and to have opportunity to choose his sacrifice in Christ. I have
>yet another example, and then I promise y'all I'll take a week off from
>posting to give your ears a break hahaha. My son is having some challenges
>with finances, finding a plan for his future and is sort of dwindling his
>off time away messing around with the guys, and his money as well. He makes
>plenty good money but yet winds up with love notes from the bank entitled
>insufficient fund notice. Long before he graduated, he was told he needed
>to have a plan for his life. Was he going to school? Saving for a down
>payment on a house?  Whatever it was, it was meant to be a plan to better
>his life rather than just hang out with the boys,  for him to stay at our
>home and have free laundry, food, heat, sleep and etc. He hadn't done much,
>and in August I had another little talk with him, and of course there's
>talk and ideas floating around. We gave him to February as an extension as
>he had planned on getting an apartment with a buddy of his. Well guess
>what? February is basically here and he is in no shape to get an apartment
>nor have activity in that direction. He is talking about possibility of
>school now that the deadline is approaching and he knows something will
>likely happen. But I don't think he thinks we'll go through with charging
>him rentt.  Now The rule is, either he finds a betterment of his life, a
>plan to go to school and etc. where he has valid need of a helping hand, or
>he finds his own place as I won't be an enabler to his just hanging out
>with the guys and doing nothing. If he didn't come up with a plan , he'd
>have to either move out or pay rent here. Did I know it would come to this
>here in February? I was about 95% sure based off history and efforts to
>combat it on his part. Is it my fault that he'll either have to pay rent
>here or somewhere else and further his financial burden? No. It really
>breaks my heart to have to put it to him as such, especially if he is
>feeling financial pressure from the bank but it is unnecessary and it won't
>get better by my giving more breaks. I really dread having to go through
>with our promise, but I have to. So is it with us and God I guess. He knows
>what might happen as Ned said, but that doesn't make him an accomplice to
>the situation just because he has the power to correct it, and his heart
>likely breaks too. So perhaps in our situations, all we can do is look for
>that correction and draw closer to  him. My daughter is leaving for Europe
>for three months for a traveling class for her second semester as  Junior
>in college and I don't want any tension before she leaves so I'm putting
>off having a very real and likely sobering reality check with my son as to
>not give her worry. My son is a good kid, has had his challenges in the
>past but overall a great kid, just a bit lost. Yet I offer he will not
>accept my advice or help. I bailed him out of a situation as well the bank
>forgone some draft charges, and perhaps he has done some work I don't know
>about, that is possible, but for his own preparation for his future and
>strength. He will be faced very soon with a rent bill and possibly his own
>insurance policy if he does not make good on his portion to us for his car.
>The way I see it he has almost $1000 giver or take a hundred or two
>depending on his checks to do whatever he wants with, but he won't eat at
>home, he eats out, does the pizza thing with the guys and etc. I'll be
>honest, as good a kid as he is, I have one brow raised as to where else the
>bucks could be going and watching for that too, but he's been down that
>road and got the dung scared out of him, as well a friend of his, two
>actually. So I'm doubtful, but he is a follower, not a leader as he once
>was. Anyway, just as I have made the rules of our house to both my kids,
>they are welcome to stay  here rent free, eat and use the facilities
>without charge as long as you are bettering your plan for your future. My
>daughter took us up, my son is stalling and yet using the facilities, and
>coming up short with time and now money he owes us each month. So it is by
>the words already spoken and committed to by us as parents that he chooses
>his own future possibilities under our roof here and so it is with god and us.
>
>Brad
>
>
>At 01:43 PM 1/24/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> >Brad,
> >I agree that there are many things in God's word that are perplexing. But,
> >"by faith" we accept it knowing that He is faithful and cannot lie.
> >We have done a study at church about predestination and free will. One of
> >the things that seems to be  a stumbling point for many is the fact that God
> >is omniscient (all knowing) which means He knows everything. God is not,
> >like us, limited by time nor space. From where He sits (figurative speech)
> >He can see the past, present and future all in a glance. The question then
> >is--if God's knows everything before hand does that mean He is responsible
> >for it happening?  Does His knowing of an event make Him the cause of the
> >event? I think not. If we were predestined, as some teach, none of us would
> >have a choice in our salvation. Because God knows who will accept and serve
> >Him does not mean we have no choice in the matter. In Romans 8 V29 it says,
> >
> >"or those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness
> >of his
> >Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
> >We are predestined to conform to Jesus for He is the way, the truth and the
> >Life.  There are many other Scriptures where it talks about predestination
> >and foreknowledge. We know for a certainty by many verses in the Bible that
> >God intedns that if anyone is to be saved, he must accept and obey Jesus.
> >There is no other way.  The fact that God knows who will accept Jesus does
> >not make Him the cause.
> >It is a difficult subject and I haven't but scratched the surface.  There
> >are many questions that we can aks and one day we will understand it all.
> >
> >Ned
> >" 30
>
>Brad
>
>    People want to see a move of God, while God wants to see a move of people