Those are a lot of good points.  Kathy, if your coffee is still there after 
that, you are a good woman.
For unto us a child is born.  Unto us a son is given.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MV" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: A question about how to talk to Chris


> Kathy,
>
> Got a cup of coffee at the ready to read this? lol. I understand exactly
> what you are saying. I've seen it many times with the history of alcohol
> and drug abuse in  my family. No matter what you do, or don't do, it can 
> be
> used against you. You say something to him, and "you are picking on Me",
> "trying to run my life", "just don't understand", "jumping to 
> conclusions",
> "think you are so perfect and high and mighty", and on and on and on. You
> don't say anything and it's "you don't care", "you just sit and watch me
> fall on my face and say nothing", "you don't love me or else you'd have
> helped me", "your words say one thing but your actions say another" and on
> and on and on and on. Perhaps not that explicit in your case but the
> inference is there I'd bet.   Take my words below for what ever... you are
> living it not I, but saying and proving you love him is a "yah". Saying he
> is manipulating and you don't care for it? Is a "nah". Why nah? Because he
> knows this already, he's lived with you for 17 years. He saw your
> disapproval with his attempts to manipulate, your other kids as they tried
> it with testings of growing up, perhaps grown ups you've associated with
> and talked about around the house as well. He knows your position I'm next
> to positive. He also, being a manipulator, doesn't like to lose at a game
> he prides himself on survival in sticky situations so he views being 
> caught
> as a failure and will only get mad at himself, and you, then dig in 
> deeper,
> then making it harder on you to remain in that constant love. He'll make 
> it
> harder for you for punishment. That is just my thought. I guess you could
> just not open your self up to being used or manipulated. That will say 
> much
> more than stating it in words.  For one thing, expect his calls to come 
> out
> of the blue, that way you aren't focusing on getting caught off guard as 
> it
> were. Expect he'll try to manipulate you, don't dwell your thoughts on it,
> but when you pick up the phone, and it's Chris, be happy to hear from him
> as if it were a friend of yours who you know has history of using you a
> bit, but yet you love them. Then just  don't fall for his dramas. Let him
> know in action that manipulation won't work.  Be diplomatic about it. You
> know what diplomatic is according some famous guy who I can't remember the
> name of? lol. It is selling someone a ticket to hell in such a way they
> can't wait to go. Point being treat him like an adult, like he is  your
> adult kid and on his own. Let him make his own messes, don't create a
> spiteful situation or purposefully get his goat, because I'd think he'd
> just shut down to anything positive you have to say. I know perhaps you
> disagree with this as it came up before but it sort of falls in my point.
> If Chris is half looped up and drives over to your house? Pulls in the
> drive and you take the keys and  call a cab or someone to bring him home.
> Great. Don't call the cops. If he on the other hand pulls in the drive 
> half
> looped up and smashes in your  garage door? Then call the cops, you need a
> police report anyway for insurance, and he'll learn a lesson in the 
> process
> and although might say differently, he'll know you did what you did 
> because
> you had to, not because you want to. It is like Phil posted one day...
> "What is truth?". Truth is what we believe it to be whether it is or not.
> That is our definition, not God's. If we believe eating peas on Friday
> nights will get us saved, we believe that to be a truth, we act according
> to that belief, and we expect others to respect that and fall in
> accordingly when dealing with us. Will eating peas on Friday nights save
> us. Of course not but that doesn't matter when we are dealing with the
> person who thinks it, especially if we want to change their mind. Coming
> out and just blatantly telling them eating peas on Friday won't save them
> will only offend them, get them mad, turn them off to anything else you
> want to say, and you get nowhere. A subtle manner and action and proof to
> the contrary is needed, and one day they'll catch on, or you'll have a God
> sent opportunity to go for it and tell them. The same is for Chris I tend
> to think. Picture it this way?
>
> Chris comes knocking on your door:
>
> You: Hi Chris. Hey what brings you by?
>
> Chris: Well mom. I sort of made a mistake. I've been praying about it ever
> since but I got drunk and went home to Nickies place and she got mad at me
> and kicked me out and I was praying about it and thought I could come home
> and sleep here tonight.
>
> You: Oh geez honey. Well I'd like to do that I really would but your
> brother is sleeping in your old room now and we really don't have a good
> place for you to sleep. Sorry. Maybe you ought try Nicki's place again.
>
> Chris: But mom I can just sleep on the couch or something that's all I
> need, I just need a place to crash tonight.
>
> You: Well I'd like to do that but with the  other kids being 
> impressionable
> and all, we really can't do that for several reasons. but Would you  like
> me to get you a phone book perhaps there's a hotel you can stay in 
> tonight.
>
> I know it probably wouldn't be that easy but that is the idea. Stop the
> manipulation possibilities, yet let him know you care.
>
> If you were to answer the door saying
>
> "Chris I'm tired of you manipulating us around here. We are your parents
> not some bum off the street. When are you going to  blah blah blah" 
> *smile*
>
> Again you  wouldn't necessarily say it that way, but it is his perception
> you are working off of and by remaining constant and unwavering yet loving
> as Pat would say. That is only my perception of a choice from 1400 miles
> away or so. You probably aren't going to come out "winning" as you might
> want, to get the point totally across to him, and he might yet get mad, 
> but
> at least he sees consistency, love, and a lack of a successful selling of 
> a
> bill of goods that isn't true. Now, you better warm up your cup of coffee
> after that long winded babble.
>
> The Babbler
>