Karen,
I agree with you. If we had our children and ten didn't feed them their
bottles how would they know to drink them?
For unto us a child is born. Unto us a son is given.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Poor Judas
>I think that the people really get saved but part of the problem that
>causes them to turn away from the Lord is that we lead them to Christ but
>than drop them like hot potatoes so they are new born babes thrown into the
>world to fend for themsalves and we know they cannot. So once we bring
>them to the Lord we need to stay close so we can menter them and make them
>stronger so that when they go into the world (lions den) they have the
>equipment to defend themselves and stand strong.
>
> --
> I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
> there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out
> there is
>
> IN GOD WE TRUST
> Karen Carter '74
> -KC- Ministries
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: April Reisinger <[log in to unmask]>
>> Dear Angel,
>>
>> I also am a Baptist and I believe that God's salvation is secure. I do
>> believe, however, that we can choose to abandon the free gift. If we do
>> that, it is not God who has changed, but we who have--which would wonder
>> me
>> to the question did we ever get saved in the first place?
>>
>> April
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: Poor Judas
>>
>>
>> > It truly is a puzzler isn't it. I guess that sort of screws up the
>> > idea
>> > of
>> > being eternally save doesn't it. My sister is a Baptist and that is
>> > what
>> > she believes. If Jesus knew Judas would never attain salvation why
>> > then
>> > did
>> > he make him a disciple in the first place. God certainly could have
>> > sent
>> > him help during his depression to cause him to live and see the rising
>> > of
>> > Our Lord and receive salvation? Perhaps he was predestined as was the
>> > Jesus' mother for this fate. She was predestined after all. However
>> > as
>> > they didn't fully realize their positions in the greater scheme of
>> > things,
>> > well, perhaps Mary did, we don't understand our own predestony.
>> > Another
>> > question to ponder. If Judas was predestined to fall and to fail then
>> > he
>> > truly had no choice which causes him to even be a more sorrowful
>> > character.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: MV <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:43 AM
>> > Subject: Poor Judas
>> >
>> >
>> >> Angel,
>> >>
>> >> I agree we are predestined to use our free will as we both made
>> >> mention
>> >> in
>> >> an earlier post and I'm not even Catholic *big cheezy smile*, actually
>> >> I'm
>> >> probably a denominational mutt having grown up Lutheran, married in a
>> >> Moravian church, served in a couple non-denominational churches, as
>> >> well
>> > as
>> >> one inter-denominational church, recently came from a Baptist church
>> >> and
>> >> now attending an Assembly of God that seems to have balance apart from
>> >> other O G churches I'll not make mention here. I've moved a few times
>> >> in
>> > my
>> >> life which caused me to look about and search out churches making a
>> >> difference and teaching the word. Anyway that wasn't my point of this
>> > email
>> >> I guess I just realized I guess I'm a freewiller as to grasping the
>> >> Word
>> >> for what it is and not so much a denominational marriage, which there
>> >> is
>> >> nothing wrong with that, I guess I just hadn't taken that road. Anyway
>> >> My
>> >> real point is, actually there are two, are...
>> >>
>> >> Point #1, you mentioned about we are predestined to freewill. But also
>> > said...
>> >>
>> >> "This is why I have always felt sorry for Judas. He was the one God
>> >> had
>> >> planned to betray Jesus."
>> >>
>> >> Are you saying he was predestined but we're not? I think I had
>> >> wondered
>> >> this here before on list that if Judas hadn't chose to follow through,
>> >> would someone else have stepped up? I'm thinking of another person at
>> >> a
>> >> critical time of history who had a choice. Ester when her uncle told
>> >> her
>> >> upon her unwillingness to plead to the king on behalf of the Jews...
>> >> "For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will
>> >> arise
>> >> for the Jews from another place and you and your father's house will
>> >> perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such a
>> > time
>> >> as this?"-- Ester 4:14
>> >>
>> >> So it appears as Ester had a choice and God would see to it this thing
>> >> would be accomplished one way or the other. Such could also be said
>> >> for
>> >> Judas I wonder.
>> >>
>> >> Point #2 is I always had questioned whether or not Judas was actually
>> >> a
>> >> gonner spiritually. I mean it seemed unfair, especially if he was
>> >> somehow
>> >> destined to be the trigger man of Christ's crucifixion. If you look he
>> > felt
>> >> remorse, gave the 30 pieces of silver back and guilt took over so much
>> >> so
>> >> he hung himself. I had, in my thoughts, questioned preachers when
>> >> they
>> >> mentioned Judas is in hell for his betrayal. To me it seemed he must
>> >> have
>> >> had a first rate relationship with Christ to be among the twelve, and
>> > with
>> >> all who were after Christ for healing folks right under their noses,
>> >> on
>> > the
>> >> Sabbath yet, they had good reason to go after him without a betray or
>> >> so
>> >> that will be another question for me to wonder. However, after reading
>> >> and
>> >> looking up some definitions of the Scripture in Strong's
>> >> Greek/Hebrew, I
>> >> see that Judas indeed, by Jesus' words is in fact a gonner. Jesus
>> >> said...
>> >>
>> >> "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have
>> >> given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son
>> >> of
>> >> perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." --John 17:12
>> >>
>> >> Looking up the word parish in the original it is...
>> >>
>> >> NT:622 apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); from NT:575 and the base of NT:3639;
>> >> to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or
>> > figuratively:
>> >> KJV - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
>> >>
>> >> Looking up the word "perdition" it is defined...
>> >> NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622;
>> >> ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):
>> >> KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish,
>> > pernicious
>> >> ways, waste.
>> >>
>> >> I suppose the latter word could be stretched as to say he only died
>> >> physically as that is one of it's definitions but that coupled with
>> >> the prior word being "fully" destroyed, and the fact the two words
>> >> are
>> >> connected as a derivative, gives connotation Judas won't be among
>> >> those
>> >> we
>> >> see in eternity with God. It is difficult to see how a man who could
>> >> walk
>> >> with Christ as his disciple has fallen, and then look at our own lives
>> >> and
>> >> consider we will not fall eternally despite our sin and levels of
>> >> betrayal
>> >> if we accept, believe and trust in Christ. The one guy who you'd
>> >> expect
>> >> to have the pardon of pardons, especially if this was a destined
>> >> position
>> >> for him somehow, would be Judas. His very part in history provided the
>> >> segue for all mankind to have eternal life despite sin. It is
>> >> definitely
>> >> perplexing to me.
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >> Nothing else ruins the truth like stretching it
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date:
>> > 1/23/2006
>> >
>> >
>
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