Angel,
I agree we are predestined to use our free will as we both made mention in
an earlier post and I'm not even Catholic *big cheezy smile*, actually I'm
probably a denominational mutt having grown up Lutheran, married in a
Moravian church, served in a couple non-denominational churches, as well as
one inter-denominational church, recently came from a Baptist church and
now attending an Assembly of God that seems to have balance apart from
other O G churches I'll not make mention here. I've moved a few times in my
life which caused me to look about and search out churches making a
difference and teaching the word. Anyway that wasn't my point of this email
I guess I just realized I guess I'm a freewiller as to grasping the Word
for what it is and not so much a denominational marriage, which there is
nothing wrong with that, I guess I just hadn't taken that road. Anyway My
real point is, actually there are two, are...
Point #1, you mentioned about we are predestined to freewill. But also said...
"This is why I have always felt sorry for Judas. He was the one God had
planned to betray Jesus."
Are you saying he was predestined but we're not? I think I had wondered
this here before on list that if Judas hadn't chose to follow through,
would someone else have stepped up? I'm thinking of another person at a
critical time of history who had a choice. Ester when her uncle told her
upon her unwillingness to plead to the king on behalf of the Jews...
"For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise
for the Jews from another place and you and your father's house will
perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such a time
as this?"-- Ester 4:14
So it appears as Ester had a choice and God would see to it this thing
would be accomplished one way or the other. Such could also be said for
Judas I wonder.
Point #2 is I always had questioned whether or not Judas was actually a
gonner spiritually. I mean it seemed unfair, especially if he was somehow
destined to be the trigger man of Christ's crucifixion. If you look he felt
remorse, gave the 30 pieces of silver back and guilt took over so much so
he hung himself. I had, in my thoughts, questioned preachers when they
mentioned Judas is in hell for his betrayal. To me it seemed he must have
had a first rate relationship with Christ to be among the twelve, and with
all who were after Christ for healing folks right under their noses, on the
Sabbath yet, they had good reason to go after him without a betray or so
that will be another question for me to wonder. However, after reading and
looking up some definitions of the Scripture in Strong's Greek/Hebrew, I
see that Judas indeed, by Jesus' words is in fact a gonner. Jesus said...
"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have
given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of
perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." --John 17:12
Looking up the word parish in the original it is...
NT:622 apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); from NT:575 and the base of NT:3639;
to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:
KJV - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Looking up the word "perdition" it is defined...
NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622;
ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):
KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious
ways, waste.
I suppose the latter word could be stretched as to say he only died
physically as that is one of it's definitions but that coupled with
the prior word being "fully" destroyed, and the fact the two words are
connected as a derivative, gives connotation Judas won't be among those we
see in eternity with God. It is difficult to see how a man who could walk
with Christ as his disciple has fallen, and then look at our own lives and
consider we will not fall eternally despite our sin and levels of betrayal
if we accept, believe and trust in Christ. The one guy who you'd expect
to have the pardon of pardons, especially if this was a destined position
for him somehow, would be Judas. His very part in history provided the
segue for all mankind to have eternal life despite sin. It is definitely
perplexing to me.
Brad
Brad
Nothing else ruins the truth like stretching it
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