We can thank John Kennedy for the decline by taking prayer out of school.  If people would have voted for the right man and not the pretty boy I would hope we would still be a christian nation?  But in this nation maoney talks and others walk.
When I was in my bad situation I wrote to all the tv evangelist pastors and alls I got for a response was mailing asking for money.  I do not hold it against them.  I was saddenned by it because I wonder what Jesus thought.  And that is who they will have to answer to.  I like a saying I heard Most of the tv pastors are pay to pray.  I know a lot of them are sincere and really love the Lord so I don't want to discredit any of them.  But how much do they help the poor individuals right here at home. I know they do great work in helping like the snamee (Spelled way wrong) and the hungry around the world.  But if we were really doing like Jesus says.  There would be no hungry homeless or distatue.  God makes enough for everyone it is only greed that there is not.

--
Christ is either Lord of all or he is not Lord at all.
Karen Carter '74



> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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> Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Here is a good article to ponder, not necessarily written by a =
> conservative.
>
> Vinny
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Rick Johnson=20
> To: ccnn=20
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:15 PM
> Subject: [CCNN] The Christian Paradox
>
>
> The Christian Paradox
> How a faithful nation gets Jesus wrong
> Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005. What it means to be Christian in =
> America. An excerpt. Originally from August 2005. By Bill McKibben.=20
> Sources=20
> Only 40 percent of Americans can name more than four of the Ten =
> Commandments, and a scant half can cite any of the four authors of the =
> Gospels. Twelve percent believe Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. This =
> failure to recall the specifics of our Christian heritage may be further =
> evidence of our nation's educational decline, but it probably doesn't =
> matter all that much in spiritual or political terms. Here is a =
> statistic that does matter: Three quarters of Americans believe the =
> Bible teaches that "God helps those who help themselves." That is, three =
> out of four Americans believe that this uber-American idea, a notion at =
> the core of our current individualist politics and culture, which was in =
> fact uttered by Ben Franklin, actually appears in Holy Scripture. The =
> thing is, not only is Franklin's wisdom not biblical; it's =
> counter-biblical. Few ideas could be further from the gospel message, =
> with its radical summons to love of neighbor. On this essential matter, =
> most Americans=97most American Christians=97are simply wrong, as if 75 =
> percent of American scientists believed that Newton proved gravity =
> causes apples to fly up.=20
>
> Asking Christians what Christ taught isn't a trick. When we say we are a =
> Christian nation=97and, overwhelmingly, we do=97it means something. =
> People who go to church absorb lessons there and make real decisions =
> based on those lessons; increasingly, these lessons inform their =
> politics. (One poll found that 11 percent of U.S. churchgoers were urged =
> by their clergy to vote in a particular way in the 2004 election, up =
> from 6 percent in 2000.) When George Bush says that Jesus Christ is his =
> favorite philosopher, he may or may not be sincere, but he is reflecting =
> the sincere beliefs of the vast majority of Americans.=20
>
> And therein is the paradox. America is simultaneously the most =
> professedly Christian of the developed nations and the least Christian =
> in its behavior. That paradox=97more important, perhaps, than the much =
> touted ability of French women to stay thin on a diet of chocolate and =
> cheese=97illuminates the hollow at the core of our boastful, careening =
> culture.=20
>
> * * *
>
> Ours is among the most spiritually homogenous rich nations on earth. =
> Depending on which poll you look at and how the question is asked, =
> somewhere around 85 percent of us call ourselves Christian. Israel, by =
> way of comparison, is 77 percent Jewish. It is true that a smaller =
> number of Americans=97about 75 percent=97claim they actually pray to God =
> on a daily basis, and only 33 percent say they manage to get to church =
> every week. Still, even if that 85 percent overstates actual practice, =
> it clearly represents aspiration. In fact, there is nothing else that =
> unites more than four fifths of America. Every other statistic one can =
> cite about American behavior is essentially also a measure of the =
> behavior of professed Christians. That's what America is: a place =
> saturated in Christian identity.=20
>
> But is it Christian? This is not a matter of angels dancing on the heads =
> of pins. Christ was pretty specific about what he had in mind for his =
> followers. What if we chose some simple criterion=97say, giving aid to =
> the poorest people=97as a reasonable proxy for Christian behavior? After =
> all, in the days before his crucifixion, when Jesus summed up his =
> message for his disciples, he said the way you could tell the righteous =
> from the damned was by whether they'd fed the hungry, slaked the =
> thirsty, clothed the naked, welcomed the stranger, and visited the =
> prisoner. What would we find then?=20
>
> In 2004, as a share of our economy, we ranked second to last, after =
> Italy, among developed countries in government foreign aid. Per capita =
> we each provide fifteen cents a day in official development assistance =
> to poor countries. And it's not because we were giving to private =
> charities for relief work instead. Such funding increases our average =
> daily donation by just six pennies, to twenty-one cents. It's also not =
> because Americans were too busy taking care of their own; nearly 18 =
> percent of American children lived in poverty (compared with, say, 8 =
> percent in Sweden). In fact, by pretty much any measure of caring for =
> the least among us you want to propose=97childhood nutrition, infant =
> mortality, access to preschool=97we come in nearly last among the rich =
> nations, and often by a wide margin. The point is not just that (as =
> everyone already knows) the American nation trails badly in all these =
> categories; it's that the overwhelmingly Christian American nation =
> trails badly in all these categories, categories to which Jesus paid =
> particular attention. And it's not as if the numbers are getting better: =
> the U.S. Department of Agriculture reported last year that the number of =
> households that were "food insecure with hunger" had climbed more than =
> 26 percent between 1999 and 2003.=20
>
> This Christian nation also tends to make personal, as opposed to =
> political, choices that the Bible would seem to frown upon. Despite the =
> Sixth Commandment, we are, of course, the most violent rich nation on =
> earth, with a murder rate four or five times that of our European peers. =
> We have prison populations greater by a factor of six or seven than =
> other rich nations (which at least should give us plenty of opportunity =
> for visiting the prisoners). Having been told to turn the other cheek, =
> we're the only Western democracy left that executes its citizens, mostly =
> in those states where Christianity is theoretically strongest. Despite =
> Jesus' strong declarations against divorce, our marriages break up at a =
> rate=97just over half=97that compares poorly with the European Union's =
> average of about four in ten. That average may be held down by the fact =
> that Europeans marry less frequently, and by countries, like Italy, =
> where divorce is difficult; still, compare our success with, say, that =
> of the godless Dutch, whose divorce rate is just over 37 percent. =
> Teenage pregnancy? We're at the top of the charts. Personal =
> self-discipline=97like, say, keeping your weight under control? Buying =
> on credit? Running government deficits? Do you need to ask?=20
>
> * * *
>
> To read the remainder of this essay, pick up a copy of the August issue =
> of Harper's Magazine, on newsstands near you. Looking for a newsstand?
>
> About the Author
> Bill McKibben, a scholar-in-residence at Middlebury College, is the =
> author of many books, including The End of Nature and Wandering Home: A =
> Long Walk Across America's Most Hopeful Landscape. His last article for =
> Harper's Magazine, "The Cuba Diet," appeared in the April 2005 issue.=20
>
> This is The Christian Paradox, a feature, originally from August 2005, =
> published Wednesday, July 27, 2005. It is part of Features, which is =
> part of Harpers.org.=20
>
>
> --=20
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --------------=20
> Rick Johnson=20
> http://profiles.yahoo.com/ccnnowner
> Constitution Party Member / Virginia=20
> [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
>
> "Providence has given to our people=20
> the choice of their rulers. And it is the=20
> duty as well as the privilege and interest,=20
> of a Christian nation to select and prefer=20
> Christians for their rulers."=20
> First Chief Justice of Supreme Court John Jay, February 28, 1797=20
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section=20
> 107, any copyrighted work in this message=20
> is distributed under fair use without profit=20
> or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. =20
> www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Under Bill S.1618 TITLE III passed by=20
> the 105th U.S. Congress this letter=20
> cannot be considered "spam" as long=20
> as it  includes:=20
> 1) contact information and,=20
> 2) the way to be removed from future mailings=20
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20
>
>   a..  Visit your group "ccnn" on the web.
>    =20
>   b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    [log in to unmask]
>    =20
>   c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of =
> Service.=20
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -------
>
>
> --Boundary_(ID_I85HsTtmQ64Pa4DQ8Lv6qA)
> Content-type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252
> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Dwindows-1252">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here is a good article to ponder, not =
> necessarily=20
> written by a conservative.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vinny</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
> [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Rick =
> Johnson</A>=20
> </DIV>
> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ccnn</A> </DIV>
> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:15 PM</DIV>
> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> [CCNN] The Christian Paradox</DIV></DIV>
> <DIV><BR></DIV>
> <H2>The Christian Paradox</H2>
> <H3 class=3Dsubhed>How a faithful nation gets Jesus wrong</H3>
> <DIV class=3Dbyline>Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005. What it means to =
> be=20
> Christian in America. An excerpt. Originally from August 2005. By Bill =
> McKibben.=20
> </DIV>
> <DIV class=3Dnotes><A id=3Dfootnote=20
> title=3D"View/hide notes and annotations on this page" style=3D"DISPLAY: =
> none"=20
> onclick=3D"showfootnote();return false;"=20
> href=3D"http://harpers.org/ExcerptTheChristianParadox.html#">Sources</A> =
> </DIV>
> <P>Only 40 percent of Americans can name more than four of the Ten =
> Commandments,=20
> and a scant half can cite any of the four authors of the Gospels. Twelve =
> percent=20
> believe Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. This failure to recall the =
> specifics of our=20
> Christian heritage may be further evidence of our nation's educational =
> decline,=20
> but it probably doesn't matter all that much in spiritual or political =
> terms.=20
> Here is a statistic that does matter: Three quarters of Americans =
> believe the=20
> Bible teaches that "God helps those who help themselves." That is, three =
> out of=20
> four Americans believe that this uber-American idea, a notion at the =
> core of our=20
> current individualist politics and culture, which was in fact uttered by =
> Ben=20
> Franklin, actually appears in Holy Scripture. The thing is, not only is=20
> Franklin's wisdom not biblical; it's counter-biblical. Few ideas could =
> be=20
> further from the gospel message, with its radical summons to love of =
> neighbor.=20
> On this essential matter, most Americans=97most American =
> Christians=97are simply=20
> wrong, as if 75 percent of American scientists believed that Newton =
> proved=20
> gravity causes apples to fly up. </P>
> <P>Asking Christians what Christ taught isn't a trick. When we say we =
> are a=20
> Christian nation=97and, overwhelmingly, we do=97it means something. =
> People who go to=20
> church absorb lessons there and make real decisions based on those =
> lessons;=20
> increasingly, these lessons inform their politics. (One poll found that =
> 11=20
> percent of U.S. churchgoers were urged by their clergy to vote in a =
> particular=20
> way in the 2004 election, up from 6 percent in 2000.) When George Bush =
> says that=20
> Jesus Christ is his favorite philosopher, he may or may not be sincere, =
> but he=20
> is reflecting the sincere beliefs of the vast majority of Americans. =
> </P>
> <P>And therein is the paradox. America is simultaneously the most =
> professedly=20
> Christian of the developed nations and the least Christian in its =
> behavior. That=20
> paradox=97more important, perhaps, than the much touted ability of =
> French women to=20
> stay thin on a diet of chocolate and cheese=97illuminates the hollow at =
> the core=20
> of our boastful, careening culture. </P>
> <P class=3Dcut>* * *</P>
> <P>Ours is among the most spiritually homogenous rich nations on earth.=20
> Depending on which poll you look at and how the question is asked, =
> somewhere=20
> around 85 percent of us call ourselves Christian. Israel, by way of =
> comparison,=20
> is 77 percent Jewish. It is true that a smaller number of =
> Americans=97about 75=20
> percent=97claim they actually pray to God on a daily basis, and only 33 =
> percent=20
> say they manage to get to church every week. Still, even if that 85 =
> percent=20
> overstates actual practice, it clearly represents aspiration. In fact, =
> there is=20
> nothing else that unites more than four fifths of America. Every other =
> statistic=20
> one can cite about American behavior is essentially also a measure of =
> the=20
> behavior of professed Christians. That's what America is: a place =
> saturated in=20
> Christian identity. </P>
> <P>But is it <I>Christian</I>? This is not a matter of angels dancing on =
> the=20
> heads of pins. Christ was pretty specific about what he had in mind for =
> his=20
> followers. What if we chose some simple criterion=97say, giving aid to =
> the poorest=20
> people=97as a reasonable proxy for Christian behavior? After all, in the =
> days=20
> before his crucifixion, when Jesus summed up his message for his =
> disciples, he=20
> said the way you could tell the righteous from the damned was by whether =
> they'd=20
> fed the hungry, slaked the thirsty, clothed the naked, welcomed the =
> stranger,=20
> and visited the prisoner. What would we find then? </P>
> <P>In 2004, as a share of our economy, we ranked second to last, after =
> Italy,=20
> among developed countries in government foreign aid. Per capita we each =
> provide=20
> fifteen cents a day in official development assistance to poor =
> countries. And=20
> it's not because we were giving to private charities for relief work =
> instead.=20
> Such funding increases our average daily donation by just six pennies, =
> to=20
> twenty-one cents. It's also not because Americans were too busy taking =
> care of=20
> their own; nearly 18 percent of American children lived in poverty =
> (compared=20
> with, say, 8 percent in Sweden). In fact, by pretty much any measure of =
> caring=20
> for the least among us you want to propose=97childhood nutrition, infant =
>
> mortality, access to preschool=97we come in nearly last among the rich =
> nations,=20
> and often by a wide margin. The point is not just that (as everyone =
> already=20
> knows) the American nation trails badly in all these categories; it's =
> that the=20
> overwhelmingly <I>Christian</I> American nation trails badly in all =
> these=20
> categories, categories to which Jesus paid particular attention. And =
> it's not as=20
> if the numbers are getting better: the U.S. Department of Agriculture =
> reported=20
> last year that the number of households that were "food insecure with =
> hunger"=20
> had climbed more than 26 percent between 1999 and 2003. </P>
> <P>This Christian nation also tends to make personal, as opposed to =
> political,=20
> choices that the Bible would seem to frown upon. Despite the Sixth =
> Commandment,=20
> we are, of course, the most violent rich nation on earth, with a murder =
> rate=20
> four or five times that of our European peers. We have prison =
> populations=20
> greater by a factor of six or seven than other rich nations (which at =
> least=20
> should give us plenty of opportunity for visiting the prisoners). Having =
> been=20
> told to turn the other cheek, we're the only Western democracy left that =
>
> executes its citizens, mostly in those states where Christianity is=20
> theoretically strongest. Despite Jesus' strong declarations against =
> divorce, our=20
> marriages break up at a rate=97just over half=97that compares poorly =
> with the=20
> European Union's average of about four in ten. That average may be held =
> down by=20
> the fact that Europeans marry less frequently, and by countries, like =
> Italy,=20
> where divorce is difficult; still, compare our success with, say, that =
> of the=20
> godless Dutch, whose divorce rate is just over 37 percent. Teenage =
> pregnancy?=20
> We're at the top of the charts. Personal self-discipline=97like, say, =
> keeping your=20
> weight under control? Buying on credit? Running government deficits? Do =
> you need=20
> to ask? </P>
> <P class=3Dcut>* * *</P>
> <P>To read the remainder of this essay, pick up a copy of the August =
> issue of=20
> Harper's Magazine, on newsstands near you. <A class=3Doutlink=20
> title=3D" External link to javascript:void; "=20
> onclick=3D"window.open('Newsstands/Map.html','mapwindow','resizable=3D1,h=
> eight=3D360,width=3D770');"=20
> href=3D"javascript:void;">Looking for a newsstand?</A></P>
> <H3 class=3Dnotes>About the Author</H3>
> <P>Bill McKibben, a scholar-in-residence at Middlebury College, is the =
> author of=20
> many books, including <I>The End of Nature</I> and <I>Wandering Home: A =
> Long=20
> Walk Across America's Most Hopeful Landscape</I>. His last article for=20
> <I>Harper's Magazine</I>, "<A=20
> title=3D"Internal link to: The Cuba Diet, from 2005-06-06"=20
> href=3D"http://harpers.org/TheCubaDiet.html#ExcerptTheChristianParadox">T=
> he Cuba=20
> Diet</A>," appeared in the April 2005 issue. </P>
> <DIV class=3Dmetatext>This is <B>The Christian Paradox</B>, <A=20
> title=3D"Internal link to: Features"=20
> href=3D"http://harpers.org/Feature.html#ExcerptTheChristianParadox">a =
> feature</A>,=20
> originally from August 2005, published Wednesday, July 27, 2005. It is =
> part of=20
> <A title=3D"Internal link to: Features"=20
> href=3D"http://harpers.org/Feature.html">Features</A>, which is part of =
> <A=20
> title=3D"Internal link to: Harpers.org"=20
> href=3D"http://harpers.org/index.html">Harpers.org</A>. </DIV><BR =
> clear=3Dall><BR>--=20
> <BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------------------=20
> <BR>Rick Johnson <BR><A=20
> href=3D"http://profiles.yahoo.com/ccnnowner">http://profiles.yahoo.com/cc=
> nnowner</A><BR>Constitution=20
> Party Member / Virginia <BR><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">ccnn-subscribe@yahoogroups=
> .com</A><BR><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=
> <BR><BR>"Providence=20
> has given to our people <BR>the choice of their rulers. And it is the =
> <BR>duty=20
> as well as the privilege and interest, <BR>of a Christian nation to =
> select and=20
> prefer <BR>Christians for their rulers." <BR>First Chief Justice of =
> Supreme=20
> Court John Jay, February 28, 1797=20
> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| =
> --><BR><BR><TT>---------------------------------------------<BR>In=20
> accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section <BR>107, any copyrighted work in =
> this=20
> message <BR>is distributed under fair use without profit <BR>or payment =
> for=20
> non-profit research and educational purposes only.&nbsp;=20
> <BR>www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml<BR>--------------------------=
> -----------------<BR><BR>Under=20
> Bill S.1618 TITLE III passed by <BR>the 105th U.S. Congress this letter=20
> <BR>cannot be considered "spam" as long <BR>as it&nbsp; includes: <BR>1) =
> contact=20
> information and, <BR>2) the way to be removed from future mailings</TT> =
> <BR><BR><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><!-- |**|begin egp html =
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