Amen Vicki amen


Lelia Struve email [log in to unmask] msn [log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vicki and The Rors" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Church On The Move


> Kathy,
>
> Yes, church history is pretty grim during some eras.  And, true enough
> about
> the church gaining wealth while peritioners grew poorer and poorer.  Even
> then, there were still those who had a deeply personal yet living
> relationship with the Lord.  But here's the difference in today's world
> that
> I see.  Our churches are often fostering spectators rather than
> participants
> by the entertainment that happens.  And if you're not teens, twenties, or
> thirties, or thin, or good looking, or extremely talented, or showy... Or
> maybe it's what you are that isn't accepted.  And the list goes on and on.
> My point being that members of Christ's body are rejected because they
> don't
> fit in to a particular mold.  Many people are quite content to sit back
> and
> listen to a good sermon or hear good music..  They've done their Sunday
> thing and they can go back to the world in which they live unchanged and
> lacking the ability, Christ in them, to change their world.  I've an idea
> these things aren't the original design.  But so often, this is what we
> see
> happening.
>
>
>
> Vicki
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [ECHURCH-USA] Church On The Move
>
>
>> Actually Vicki,
>> even the spectatorship thing is pretty old.  Do you realize that if you
> had
>> lived in the middle ages that you would have never been allowed to take
>> communion?  You would have sat in the congregation and observed while the
>> priests enjoyed communion, intinction style, behind a scrim.  Since you
>> probably couldn't read, the only understanding of the word that you would
>> have had was from the morality plays that the church organized.  You
>> wouldn't have been allowed to sing, because you wouldn't have been
>> considered worthy and, besides, you probably wouldn't have known
>> latin.  You would have watched the church grow wealthier and wealthier,
>> accumulating property, art work and literature while you would
>> have  been  lucky to scratch out a living with your one ox and fourteen
>> children.  If you killed a deer for food from the king's forest, you
>> would
>> have been found guilty of stealing and  you wouldn't expect the church to
>> come to your defense because the holy people would have been too
>> pre-occupied bellying up to his royal highness for certain favors.  I
> could
>> go on, but I think that you get my point.  The most blessed and most
> cursed
>> event in church history was to have   Emperor Constantine adopt
>> Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire.  She had
>> problems before that, but at that point, she jumped in bed with the devil
>> herself and has been doing a lousy job of extracting herself ever
>> since.    Neveerthe less, she is still Christ's chosen bride.
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>> At 09:23 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote:
>> >Kathy,
>> >
>> >I agree that much of the behavior has existed from perhaps not long
>> >after
>> >the church was born.  However, this spectatorship, I can't help thinking
>> >that it came in as various para-church organizations started picking up
> the
>> >job of the church.  I'm not saying they are bad.  But maybe there would
> be
>> >less need for them if the church was being the church, or called out
>> >ones
> in
>> >function.    And thank God for the church.  Unless I miss my guess, and
>> >I
>> >could very well do that, I believe we'll see it rise up and function as
> it
>> >was meant to function one day.
>> >
>> >Promise not to smack me too hard Kathy.  Smile.
>> >
>> >Vicki
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:20 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [ECHURCH-USA] Church On The Move
>> >
>> >
>> > > Well Vicki,
>> > > Truthfully, to answer your question about when the church stopped
> being
>> > > loving and accepting of others in their imperfections, I think that
> it's
>> > > pretty obvious from the history recorded in the bible that it began
> pretty
>> > > much at the beginning.  That's why so much is written to correct such
>> > > sinful behavior by James and Paul and Peter.  Satan has been working
> from
>> > > within since the get go.  After all, if he can destroy the church,
>> > > his
>> > > problems will be solved, so he thinks!
>> > > Kathy
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At 10:41 AM 2/27/2005, you wrote:
>> > > >Kathy,
>> > > >
>> > > >In so many places the church has turned to people showing up on
> Sunday
>> >and
>> > > >doing their thing as spectators.  I'd like to know when we quit
> accepting
>> > > >each other as brothers and sisters in the family of God with our
>> >limitations
>> > > >and imperfections as well as our God-given gifts.  I'm not
> specifically
>> > > >saying that of your church.  Just that this kind of trend has done
>> > > >no
>> >favors
>> > > >to the looks of Christ's bride.
>> > > >
>> > > >Vicki
>> > > >
>>