AMENDMENT XVII
Passed by Congress May 13, 1912. Ratified April 8,
1913.

good site to link to constitution and federalist
papers

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/constRedir.html

--- Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Ken, thanks so much. When did senators first begin
> to be popularly elected?
>
> Tamar Mag Raine
> [log in to unmask]
> IM: tamarmag48
> Oakland Mayor's Commission on People with
> disabilities
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: 10/4/2004 12:53:55 PM
> > Subject: Fwd: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> >
> >    i am sending a couple more examples what
> senators
> > appointed for the states would do for the states
> if it
> > had been kept as the senators not being popularly
> > elected. i am doing this becouse thetwo i sent,
> while
> > inportant to me may not be as important to some of
> > you, so i will send a couple that may be more
> relavant
> > to some of you.
> >   can we say unfunded mandates. if senators are
> > appointed by the state governments then many of
> these
> > do not get past both houses.
> >   can we say poirk barrell spending. many states
> pay
> > more in than they get back from federal taxes. if
> the
> > senators are appointed by the states, then some of
> > this put in by the peoples reps in the house gets
> > weeded out by senators from the states on the
> short
> > end of the tax and spend.
> >    the founders had reason for everyything they
> did.
> > the constitution was and is a work of genous.
> >
> > > --- ken barber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 06:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Subject: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > >   well one prime example was to confirm
> exective
> > > > appointments. the presidents cabinate was not
> > > > intended
> > > > to be swayed by popular vote. if they had
> wanted
> > > it
> > > > to
> > > > be effected by popular vote, they'd have had
> the
> > > > various cabinate officals elected. now with
> > > senators
> > > > popularly elected, there is a big element of
> > > > political
> > > > postering involved.
> > > >    another and more blastant example is the
> > > judges.
> > > > they wanted no popular voting with judges. 51
> > > > senators
> > > > representing the states could consent. now
> with
> > > > popular election of senators, lots of special
> > > > interest
> > > > lobbing goes into getting a judge confirmed.
> since
> > > > 2000 it now takes 60 senators to get
> confirmation
> > > (a
> > > > clear trampling of what the constitution has
> set)
> > > > becouse of filabustering by the minority. this
> > > type
> > > > of
> > > > political activity would never happened if the
> > > state
> > > > legislatures had continued to appoint senators
> as
> > > > the
> > > > founders intended.
> > > >   the founding fathers were very afraid of
> > > absolute
> > > > democracy.
> > > >   it is clear from their writings that they
> were
> > > > afraid of a ignorant or immoral electorate
> also.
> > > > --- Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ken, what kind of things would the senators
> > > > > represent the states for? this
> > > > > is an interesting series of emails.
> > > > >
> > > > > And the thing about state's rights is that
> the
> > > > feds
> > > > > use it when they want
> > > > > to, and when they don't, like with medical
> > > > marijuana
> > > > > they say, no, you have
> > > > > to follow federal law... but the whole drug
> war
> > > > has
> > > > > been a joke and could
> > > > > be using our money for better things.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope we get out voting materials this
> week, as
> > > > I'm
> > > > > tired of the ads for
> > > > > props i don't know about yet!
> > > > >
> > > > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > > IM: tamarmag48
> > > > > Oakland Mayor's Commission on People with
> > > > > disabilities
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > [Original Message]
> > > > > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > Date: 10/1/2004 9:29:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you r exactly right mike, but, it was set
> up
> > > > when
> > > > > > there were wigs and toreys not dems and
> > > > > republicans.
> > > > > > the founders did not wantjust a few
> heveily
> > > > > populated
> > > > > > states running the country. unless you in
> > > > virginia
> > > > > > want what calif. and new york and mass
> wants
> > > > > including
> > > > > > the taxes, it was designed to keep that
> from
> > > > > > happening.
> > > > > >  do away with the EC and the country will
> > > break
> > > > up
> > > > > in
> > > > > > just a few election cycles. remember you
> heard
> > > > it
> > > > > here
> > > > > > first.
> > > > > >   also a part of this was the senate. it
> was
> > > > never
> > > > > > concieved by the founders that the senate
> > > would
> > > > be
> > > > > > elected by popular vote. the house was to
> > > > > represent
> > > > > > the people and the senate to represent the
> > > > state.
> > > > > the
> > > > > > popular election of senators has somewhat
> > > > > corrupted
> > > > > > the confimation process for the courts and
> did
> > > > > away
> > > > > > with an important check and balance of our
> > > > > juditial
> > > > > > branch.
> > > > > > more than you wanted to know probably.
> > > > > > --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Deri,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The electoral college comes from states
> > > > rights,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > each states has a
> > > > > > > certain number of votes, depending upon
> > > > > population.
> > > > > > > California and
> > > > > > > Massachusetts are hugely High density
> > > > Democratic
> > > > > > > strongholds that the
> > > > > > > popular vote from those states would
> > > overwhelm
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > popular vote in the
> > > > > > > states which are Republican. Instead of
> the
>
=== message truncated ===




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