i am sending a couple more examples what senators
appointed for the states would do for the states if it
had been kept as the senators not being popularly
elected. i am doing this becouse thetwo i sent, while
inportant to me may not be as important to some of
you, so i will send a couple that may be more relavant
to some of you.
  can we say unfunded mandates. if senators are
appointed by the state governments then many of these
do not get past both houses.
  can we say poirk barrell spending. many states pay
more in than they get back from federal taxes. if the
senators are appointed by the states, then some of
this put in by the peoples reps in the house gets
weeded out by senators from the states on the short
end of the tax and spend.
   the founders had reason for everyything they did.
the constitution was and is a work of genous.

> --- ken barber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 06:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >   well one prime example was to confirm exective
> > appointments. the presidents cabinate was not
> > intended
> > to be swayed by popular vote. if they had wanted
> it
> > to
> > be effected by popular vote, they'd have had the
> > various cabinate officals elected. now with
> senators
> > popularly elected, there is a big element of
> > political
> > postering involved.
> >    another and more blastant example is the
> judges.
> > they wanted no popular voting with judges. 51
> > senators
> > representing the states could consent. now with
> > popular election of senators, lots of special
> > interest
> > lobbing goes into getting a judge confirmed. since
> > 2000 it now takes 60 senators to get confirmation
> (a
> > clear trampling of what the constitution has set)
> > becouse of filabustering by the minority. this
> type
> > of
> > political activity would never happened if the
> state
> > legislatures had continued to appoint senators as
> > the
> > founders intended.
> >   the founding fathers were very afraid of
> absolute
> > democracy.
> >   it is clear from their writings that they were
> > afraid of a ignorant or immoral electorate also.
> > --- Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > ken, what kind of things would the senators
> > > represent the states for? this
> > > is an interesting series of emails.
> > >
> > > And the thing about state's rights is that the
> > feds
> > > use it when they want
> > > to, and when they don't, like with medical
> > marijuana
> > > they say, no, you have
> > > to follow federal law... but the whole drug war
> > has
> > > been a joke and could
> > > be using our money for better things.
> > >
> > > I hope we get out voting materials this week, as
> > I'm
> > > tired of the ads for
> > > props i don't know about yet!
> > >
> > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > IM: tamarmag48
> > > Oakland Mayor's Commission on People with
> > > disabilities
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Date: 10/1/2004 9:29:25 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> > > >
> > > > you r exactly right mike, but, it was set up
> > when
> > > > there were wigs and toreys not dems and
> > > republicans.
> > > > the founders did not wantjust a few heveily
> > > populated
> > > > states running the country. unless you in
> > virginia
> > > > want what calif. and new york and mass wants
> > > including
> > > > the taxes, it was designed to keep that from
> > > > happening.
> > > >  do away with the EC and the country will
> break
> > up
> > > in
> > > > just a few election cycles. remember you heard
> > it
> > > here
> > > > first.
> > > >   also a part of this was the senate. it was
> > never
> > > > concieved by the founders that the senate
> would
> > be
> > > > elected by popular vote. the house was to
> > > represent
> > > > the people and the senate to represent the
> > state.
> > > the
> > > > popular election of senators has somewhat
> > > corrupted
> > > > the confimation process for the courts and did
> > > away
> > > > with an important check and balance of our
> > > juditial
> > > > branch.
> > > > more than you wanted to know probably.
> > > > --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Deri,
> > > > >
> > > > > The electoral college comes from states
> > rights,
> > > and
> > > > > each states has a
> > > > > certain number of votes, depending upon
> > > population.
> > > > > California and
> > > > > Massachusetts are hugely High density
> > Democratic
> > > > > strongholds that the
> > > > > popular vote from those states would
> overwhelm
> > > the
> > > > > popular vote in the
> > > > > states which are Republican. Instead of the
> > > winner
> > > > > take all mentality
> > > > > now being shown by the electoral college to
> > the
> > > > > states, I wonder what
> > > > > would happen if we did the math by
> > percentages,
> > > not
> > > > > by winner take all.
> > > > > At least those of us voting our protests
> > > wouldn't
> > > > > feel so left out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Tag: Warning!  This Powerchair has an
> attitude
> > > > > problem!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy
> > List
> > > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > > Deri James
> > > > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 6:13 PM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Dumb Limey!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Can someone tell me what are the advantages
> of
> > > the
> > > > > Electoral College
> > > > > system
> > > > > over more democratic systems.
> > > > >
> > > > > UK is in the same boat as the USA here - not
> > > unknown
> > > > > for the "result" to
> > > > > not
> > > > > match the popular vote. Other European
> > countries
> > > > > seem to have adopted
> > > > > systems
> > > > > which produce a parliament which more
> closely
> > > > > matches the popular vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do find it funny that the UK touts its
> > > > > "democracy", but in fact the
> > > > > system
> > > > > is designed to perpetuate 2 party politics,
> > > which
> > > > > can't possibly
> > > > > accurately
> > > > > reflect the broad range of opinions in
> > society.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > >
> > > > > Deri
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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