Ken, thanks so much. When did senators first begin to be popularly elected?

Tamar Mag Raine
[log in to unmask]
IM: tamarmag48
Oakland Mayor's Commission on People with disabilities


> [Original Message]
> From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 10/4/2004 12:53:55 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Re: Dumb Limey!!
>
>    i am sending a couple more examples what senators
> appointed for the states would do for the states if it
> had been kept as the senators not being popularly
> elected. i am doing this becouse thetwo i sent, while
> inportant to me may not be as important to some of
> you, so i will send a couple that may be more relavant
> to some of you.
>   can we say unfunded mandates. if senators are
> appointed by the state governments then many of these
> do not get past both houses.
>   can we say poirk barrell spending. many states pay
> more in than they get back from federal taxes. if the
> senators are appointed by the states, then some of
> this put in by the peoples reps in the house gets
> weeded out by senators from the states on the short
> end of the tax and spend.
>    the founders had reason for everyything they did.
> the constitution was and is a work of genous.
>
> > --- ken barber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 06:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >   well one prime example was to confirm exective
> > > appointments. the presidents cabinate was not
> > > intended
> > > to be swayed by popular vote. if they had wanted
> > it
> > > to
> > > be effected by popular vote, they'd have had the
> > > various cabinate officals elected. now with
> > senators
> > > popularly elected, there is a big element of
> > > political
> > > postering involved.
> > >    another and more blastant example is the
> > judges.
> > > they wanted no popular voting with judges. 51
> > > senators
> > > representing the states could consent. now with
> > > popular election of senators, lots of special
> > > interest
> > > lobbing goes into getting a judge confirmed. since
> > > 2000 it now takes 60 senators to get confirmation
> > (a
> > > clear trampling of what the constitution has set)
> > > becouse of filabustering by the minority. this
> > type
> > > of
> > > political activity would never happened if the
> > state
> > > legislatures had continued to appoint senators as
> > > the
> > > founders intended.
> > >   the founding fathers were very afraid of
> > absolute
> > > democracy.
> > >   it is clear from their writings that they were
> > > afraid of a ignorant or immoral electorate also.
> > > --- Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ken, what kind of things would the senators
> > > > represent the states for? this
> > > > is an interesting series of emails.
> > > >
> > > > And the thing about state's rights is that the
> > > feds
> > > > use it when they want
> > > > to, and when they don't, like with medical
> > > marijuana
> > > > they say, no, you have
> > > > to follow federal law... but the whole drug war
> > > has
> > > > been a joke and could
> > > > be using our money for better things.
> > > >
> > > > I hope we get out voting materials this week, as
> > > I'm
> > > > tired of the ads for
> > > > props i don't know about yet!
> > > >
> > > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > IM: tamarmag48
> > > > Oakland Mayor's Commission on People with
> > > > disabilities
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > [Original Message]
> > > > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > Date: 10/1/2004 9:29:25 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Dumb Limey!!
> > > > >
> > > > > you r exactly right mike, but, it was set up
> > > when
> > > > > there were wigs and toreys not dems and
> > > > republicans.
> > > > > the founders did not wantjust a few heveily
> > > > populated
> > > > > states running the country. unless you in
> > > virginia
> > > > > want what calif. and new york and mass wants
> > > > including
> > > > > the taxes, it was designed to keep that from
> > > > > happening.
> > > > >  do away with the EC and the country will
> > break
> > > up
> > > > in
> > > > > just a few election cycles. remember you heard
> > > it
> > > > here
> > > > > first.
> > > > >   also a part of this was the senate. it was
> > > never
> > > > > concieved by the founders that the senate
> > would
> > > be
> > > > > elected by popular vote. the house was to
> > > > represent
> > > > > the people and the senate to represent the
> > > state.
> > > > the
> > > > > popular election of senators has somewhat
> > > > corrupted
> > > > > the confimation process for the courts and did
> > > > away
> > > > > with an important check and balance of our
> > > > juditial
> > > > > branch.
> > > > > more than you wanted to know probably.
> > > > > --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Deri,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The electoral college comes from states
> > > rights,
> > > > and
> > > > > > each states has a
> > > > > > certain number of votes, depending upon
> > > > population.
> > > > > > California and
> > > > > > Massachusetts are hugely High density
> > > Democratic
> > > > > > strongholds that the
> > > > > > popular vote from those states would
> > overwhelm
> > > > the
> > > > > > popular vote in the
> > > > > > states which are Republican. Instead of the
> > > > winner
> > > > > > take all mentality
> > > > > > now being shown by the electoral college to
> > > the
> > > > > > states, I wonder what
> > > > > > would happen if we did the math by
> > > percentages,
> > > > not
> > > > > > by winner take all.
> > > > > > At least those of us voting our protests
> > > > wouldn't
> > > > > > feel so left out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tag: Warning!  This Powerchair has an
> > attitude
> > > > > > problem!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy
> > > List
> > > > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > > Deri James
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 6:13 PM
> > > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > > Subject: Dumb Limey!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can someone tell me what are the advantages
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > Electoral College
> > > > > > system
> > > > > > over more democratic systems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > UK is in the same boat as the USA here - not
> > > > unknown
> > > > > > for the "result" to
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > match the popular vote. Other European
> > > countries
> > > > > > seem to have adopted
> > > > > > systems
> > > > > > which produce a parliament which more
> > closely
> > > > > > matches the popular vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do find it funny that the UK touts its
> > > > > > "democracy", but in fact the
> > > > > > system
> > > > > > is designed to perpetuate 2 party politics,
> > > > which
> > > > > > can't possibly
> > > > > > accurately
> > > > > > reflect the broad range of opinions in
> > > society.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Deri
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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