bill wished to post this to the list but he is not a member.  given the 
highly informative nature of his content, I am breaking with my own personal 
policy and forwarding a message to a list from a non-member.

Kelly


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Crandall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Kelly Pierce" <[log in to unmask]>; "Tom Fowle" <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [VICUG-L] FW: talking buses/trains, letters to transit agencies


> Hi Kelley and Tom,
>
> Thanks for copying me on this communication. It just so
> happens I am now in DC, having just appeared before the US
> Access Board Directors' meeting in which I gave members an
> update on the growing number of applications of Remote
> Infrared Audile Signage (Talking Signs). I also monitored
> three days of the American National Standards Institute
> (ANSI) standards conclave in which new standards and
> modifications to older ones are acted on. It was this
> organization that in 2003 passed a US standard for Remote
> Infrared Audible Signage (RIAS) so that there could be
> national uniformaty in the the systems characteristics.
> Howewver, this specification is not to limit the number of
> manufacturers but to encourage consumers, manufacturers,
> regulators and marketers that there is a unified effort to
> provide a system that works everywhere and is "built into"
> many applications. Examples of this happening now for RIAS
> are Luminator making the Infrared "Bus Desitnation" signage
> refered to by Tom; Infrared Audible Pedestrian Signals in
> the form of a hybrid speakout / Infrared system from
> Polara, real-time Infrared output variable message signs
> built into every NextBus bus time arrival unit. I think the
> ability of RIAS to deliver real-time messaging for variable
> message signs is the really hot new area for this
> technology.
>
> Concerning the patent on the Talking Signs receiver. There
> are many ways to develop a receiver compatable with the
> characteristics of the ANSI RIAS standard. The circuit that
> is patented is only one of many possibilities, but is it
> one that just works very well in the conditions in which
> RIAS is and will be used. Again, I think the aim should be
> to standardize the Infrared wayfinding applications on the
> ANSI standard as stated above. It's just too much to ask
> that people should be expected to carry and to know how to
> properly use several infrared systems as they travel from
> one city to the next or move from one application to the
> next. If one receiver can locate bus shelters, determine
> the destination of an oncoming bus, aid in crossing
> streets, provide building and building entrance
> information, aid in finding destinations in buildings, then
> I think this type of system should be promoted.
>
> Concerning the detectable warning standard, I have watched
> that develop over the years and have even had a very small
> part helping in two of the many, many national (and
> international) studies that have resulted in specifying the
> US standards. This has been a very lengthy and well
> considered process and I'm sure you will be pleased to
> learn, a very open and honest one.
>
> Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other
> comments or questions about RIAS.
>
> Thanks and best wishes,
>
>
> Bill Crandall, Ph.D.
> Scientist
> Smith-Kettlewell
> Rehabilitation Engineering Research Center
> San Francisco, CA
> 415-345-2111
>
>
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:53:53 -0500
> "Kelly Pierce" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> tom,
>>
>> I agree that the infra red technology could be very
>> useful in identifying objects and signs from 30 to 100
>> feet away.
>>
>> I should note that advocates for IR sign technology
>> specifically list on their website bus stop announcements
>> as an example of how the technology would be used on a
>> transit system.
>>
>> do the patented circuits on the receivers pertain to any
>> particular frequency?  Might it be possible that IR
>> systems using a particular frequency would be the only
>> ones where funding would be approved?  this is not so far
>> fetched as it might seem.  As I understand it, the
>> detectable warning standard written into the Americans
>> with Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines just so
>> happens to coincide with patents of the Pathfinder tile
>> company.
>>
>> Fortunately, we have had quite a different experience
>> with automated bus stop announcements here in Chicago.
>>  The system is highly accurate and is in working order on
>> nearly every bus.  The ADA requires access equipment and
>> systems to be maintained in working order.  If this is
>> not happening, perhaps another lawsuit is needed to
>> ensure effective implementation of the system.
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fowle"
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: "Kelly Pierce" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Cc: "Bill Crandall" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [VICUG-L] FW: talking buses/trains, letters
>> to transit agencies
>>
>>
>> > Kelly,
>> > This list is probably not the best place for a debate
>> on access
>> > technology,
>> > but:
>> > how about:
>> > learning the number of an approaching bus at least a
>> hundred feet before
>> > it
>> > arrives at the stop;
>> > finding ticket machines,  gates, stairs, escolators  in
>> train stationsfrom
>> > tens of feet away;
>> > Finding the stop you want, again from tens of feet away
>> without
>> > having the entire world yelling at everyone from dozens
>> of
>> > speakers.
>> >
>> > Here in San Francisco, we have what is claimed to be
>> automatic stop
>> > announcement, it works sometimes and is often wrong and
>> more often
>> > missing.  Besides the annoyance of stupid rules about
>> social conduct being
>> > blabbered to all and sundry even when the automatic
>> stop
>> > missannouncement doesn't work.
>> >
>> > And all of this poorly implemented announcement
>> technology was as the
>> > result
>> > of a law suit and several local blindness agencies
>> letting
>> > the transit operators install technology which does not
>> work well.
>> >
>> > There is room for any number of technologies in our
>> field.
>> >
>> > Remote Infrared Audible signage is NOT a patented
>> > technology, with the exception of some proprietary
>> circuits
>> > in the receiver which are not required for successfull
>> operation.
>> >
>> > It's just that a few people, many of them experienced
>> blind travelers
>> > have made the technology work and are
>> > trying to get over the stubbornness of federal
>> burocracy and those
>> > who have not tried it.
>> >
>> > I have no financial interest in RIAS technology or
>> Talking Signs, I just
>> > think
>> > it works better than anything else out there for many
>> applications.
>> >
>> > and that'll be then end of anything on this subject
>> from me on this list.
>> >
>> > Tom Fowle
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> 


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