there has been many atrosities committed in the name
of G-d that he had nothing to do with it.

--- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Oh Kyle,
>
>    I love it, when you get into the fray. The only
> correction I would =
> add  - The Romans were not godless, they had a
> pantheon of Gods - they =
> where no different than any of the other ancient
> civilizations - we =
> can't judge those civilizations with our morals - it
> took building on =
> those societies to get where we are today. And if do
> - then we need to =
> remember - the Burning tImes and the Spanish
> Inquistion - no one gets =
> away scot free - despite everything we know - we
> still don't really act =
> like civilized people. We just have a slightly
> higher level of barberism =
> today.
>
>                                           Trisha
>
>
> Trisha Cummings,   Data Analyst  =20
> Synectics For Management Decisions, Inc
> 1901 North Moore Street, Suite 900
> Arlington, Virginia 22209
> Ph# 703-807-2345
> Fax 703-528-6421
>
>
> > What gets me is that many conservative Christians
> (which describes ME =
> in
> > only in basic theology) feel that the US should
> be/was a theocracy.  =
> If they
> > would only read the teachings of the individual
> they purport to
> > follow--Jesus--they would understand that the
> biblical theocracy only =
> went
> > as far as Israel (ex. Mt 22:15-22, the entire
> chapter of Acts 28).
> >=20
> > In the New Testament, the church is not expected
> to function as a =
> nation
> > state. On the contrary, the program is clearly
> different as witnessed =
> by the
> > call to submit to, and obey the Roman
> government--one of the most =
> godless
> > and brutal governments in history. (Rom. 13:1) The
> New Testament is =
> devoid
> > of any call to take over society or to run society
> God's way. =
> Unfortunately,
> > many Bible interpreters continue to read the
> Covenantal promises and
> > warnings addressed to Israel in the Old Testament
> as though they apply
> > either to the church, or to the United States (or
> other countries).
> >=20
> >=20
> > A very common example of this confusion is the
> often quoted passage in =
> 2
> > Chronicles 7:13 "If I shut up the heavens so that
> there is no rain, or =
> if I
> > command the locust to devour the land, or if I
> send pestilence among =
> My
> > people, and My people who are called by My name
> humble themselves and =
> pray,
> > and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways,
> then I will hear =
> from
> > heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal
> their land." It is a =
> mistake
> > to apply this passage to the United States? It
> refers to the
> > cursing/blessing section in the book of
> Deuteronomy. The people who =
> are
> > called by God's name are Israel. There is in fact
> no such promise =
> extended
> > to other countries.
> >=20
> >=20
> > One qualification is needed on this point. In the
> ancient world, there =
> was
> > no opportunity to vote on government issues or
> candidates. We do not =
> know
> > what God would have said if there was. Probably, a
> good ethical case =
> can be
> > made for Christian activism in politics as long as
> it falls short of
> > attempts to establish a Christian state.
> >=20
> > History is full of examples of catastrophic
> results when the church =
> has
> > concluded that it is to run the state. A nation
> state often has to =
> operate
> > in the area of compulsion, punishment and even
> war. All of these =
> things are
> > inappropriate for the church. The church needs to
> keep crystal clear
> > loyalties, excluding any non-biblical insertion
> into Christian =
> doctrine.
> >=20
> >=20
> > Manipulators use values similar or even identical
> to those in the =
> Bible to
> > get Christians to back their agendas. For
> instance, no two themes are =
> more
> > universal in world religions than the sanctity of
> the family and the
> > sacredness of the given cultural-national
> heritage. Oriental religion =
> often
> > actually worships parents and ancestors. Islam
> views the state as =
> expressly
> > a religious entity. Most oral religions are one
> and the same as the
> > government of the tribe. This has tended to be
> true of Christianity as =
> well
> > in Europe. The medieval church was convinced that
> the state was to =
> operate
> > under the spiritual authority of the church.
> >=20
> >=20
> > Linking the universal appeal of blood and soil
> values with patriotic =
> values>=20
> > and religion leads to the formation of a civil
> religion which is =
> sometimes
> > only nominally Christian. For instance, the
> implication of a prominent
> > evangelical leading whole football stadiums in
> prayer before games is =
> clear-
> > -all or most of those present must be Christians.
> It is easy to see =
> why
> > people begin to believe that Christianity is
> synonymous with American
> > citizenship or church membership.
> >=20
> >=20
> > This nominal Christianity is one of the most
> deadly threats to real
> > Christianity for two reasons. In the first place,
> it causes people to
> > believe that they are Christians when they are
> not, and secondly, it
> > misrepresents Christianity to the secular world.
> Instead of seeing =
> real
> > vibrant spiritual living on the part of the
> church, society sees a
> > Christianity that is plagued by confusion and
> mediocrity.
> >=20
> > Stepping, sweating, off the soapbox pulpit.
> Anybody got any snakes I =
> can
> > handle?  I hear that snake venom is good for
> spasms...wait a minute, =
> never
> > mind, that's honeybees, not snakes.
> >=20
> > Kyle
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ken barber [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:34 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Brother in Law
>
=== message truncated ===


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