Jim,
In the W3C discussions, we were dealing not only with a bright
and articulate blind person, but also with the blind person with
cognitive limitations. For most blind folks, as you say, pop-ups are
simply annoying. They are also annoying for folks who can see. But for
the person with cognitive limitations, the dissonance can throw them
completely off the rails, and make a page inaccessible.
When discussing accessibility, multiple conditions have to be
considered too, and making things more difficult is not a good plan, in
most cases.
Now, in Alan's original case, he talked about hitting a submit
button, which might reasonably be expected to take you somewhere else,
for data verification. But if you just tabbed to a new field, and were
suddenly somewhere else, it might be very confusing.
Denis Anson, MS, OTR
Computer Access Specialist
College Misericordia
301 Lake St.
Dallas, PA 18612
email: [log in to unmask]
Phone: 570-674-6413
> -----Original Message-----
> From: * EASI: Equal Access to Software & Information
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jim Rebman
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 2:42 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: What is the problem with accessible pop-up
windows?
>
> >the two important aspects are knowing where you currently are
> >(location), and knowing how to get from where you are to where
you
> want
> >to be (navigation). Pop-up windows take the focus of the
browser
> from
> >the window where you think you are, and suddenly drop you into
an
> >unexpected place. The result is disorientation, and often a
failure
> to
> >provide navigation back to where you want to be.
>
> That's the theory alright, but the practice, at least as far as
my
> experience goes is somewhat different. After a little
experience
> most
> users will be able to recognize a pop-up event and deal with it
with
> a
> keystroke or two. They will quickly learn that those annoying
> advertising
> pop-ups can be easily and quickly dismissed with a single
alt-f4 to
> kill
> the window.
>
> These pop-ups almost always make themselves known (or the
screen
> reader
> handles it) by saying something like, "new browser window", or
by
> the
> totally annoying Windows discordant boing (yes, I realize it is
> annoying
> for a reason), but even in the absence of these clues, there is
the
> most
> noticeable clue of all -- thecognitive dissonance of the
complete
> change of
> context. When a pop-up puts some new information under your
reading
> cursor
> it is immediately (or nearly so) apparent, and where your
reading
> cursor
> actually is is of no consequence (location in official
guideline
> parlence).
> "Navigation", or getting back to what you were doing, as I
said
> previously
> is simply a matter of dismissing the pop-up either by giving
what
> information it needs if it is a system warning message, or
closing
> down the
> window with an alt-f4. I can't honestly say that it disorients
me.
>
> The real problem with pop-ups is that at the very least they
are
> damned
> annoying (although there is a difference between system
warnings and
> advertising), and at the worst, intrusive, spyware, or can open
a
> security
> hole big enough to drive a virus through.
>
> There is a new breed of these that disguise themselves as
legitimate
> Windows Messenger Service pop-ups, and the only way to ensure
that
> they
> don't get you is to disable Windows Messenger Service (which
may
> annoy your
> system admin people if you're in a corporate network
environment),
> but you
> can't do this in Win 98 or ME -- only in NT, 2000, and XP. The
> other way
> is to see if they make sense in your environment and notify
your sys
> admin
> people if something seems suspicious.
>
> All in all, I don't really think (as a totally blind user
myself)
> that
> pop-ups are a very pressing issue except with regard to the
security
> and
> privacy problems I mentioned, which are only very remotely
related
> to
> accessibility issues, if at all.
>
> For those wanting to stop all the pop-ups, pop-unders and such,
I
> would
> suggest taking a look at:
>
> http://www.panicware.com
>
> They even have a fairly decent, freely downloadable version of
their
> popup
> stopper program that works just great but doesn't have as many
bells
> and
> whistles as their for-sale versions.
>
> -- Jim
>
> ------------
>
> Jim Rebman
>
> Center for Life-Long Learning and Design
> Department of Computer Science
> University of Colorado, Boulder
>
> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and
more
> violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to
move in
> the
> opposite direction."
>
> - E. F. Schumacher
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