AS a blind person of 52 years who has travelled to a lot of places during my
life having seen a lot of blind people over the years, I have come to
realize that it is necessary to think broadly when looking at an issue of
this type. Blind people like most other people go through different phases
of thieir lives from being small children to being possibly much older and
wiser but perhaps less mobile. Therefore, it is wise to allow that a person
who is percievably only blind with good mobility skills the right to possess
and use where appropriate any tool that will provide for safety and greater
independance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janice L. Knuth" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Visually Impaired And Disabled Tags.
I worked for several years in agencies for the blind as a social worker, =
a
supervisor, and a director of several social service and rehabilitation
programs. I found that people who are blind vary widely in their =
mobility
skills for many reasons, sometimes because they are newly blind, =
sometimes
because they have poor orientation abilities, sometimes because of
additional disabilities. Mary told you why she needs a disability tag, =
and
I believe her need is valid. I guess the problem is that blindness =
alone is
not a valid reasons for disability parking tags, but blindness and poor
mobility skills is definitely a valid reason.
Janice Knuth
-----Original Message-----
From: VICUG-L: Visually Impaired Computer Users' Group List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of david poehlman
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 9:08 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Visually Impaired And Disabled Tags.
I know of several instances where quite competant people when crossing
parking lots have been killed or injured not to say that those who are =
not
blind don't suffer similar fates from time to time, but having the =
ability
to park the vehicle in a position so as not to put one at risk seems to =
be a
viable issue. I would not presume to tell any blind person or member of
society by law that they are denied a safe and independant means of =
living
their lives there fore, I'd encourage such legislation were it not law
already in at least some places. We fought this battle and won it years =
ago
not because the blind are deemed helpless, but because drivers are =
stupid
and will run you down because they don't look where they are going =
penalties
not withstanding. I would not presume to deny a right to someone even =
if I
myself would not be affected by such lack of right.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terri Hedgpeth" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: Visually Impaired And Disabled Tags.
If I hired a driver, I'd hope they could see when I came out of the =
store or
maybe they shouldn't be driving! In such a case, I would, call on my =
cell
phone to let the driver know I'm done. And if we were both shopping
separately and I needed to wait for them, then it wouldn't matter where =
we
parked, I'd just remember where and go back to that spot. Here in the
greater Phoenix Metropolitan area, handicapped parking spaces aren't
generally right next to the sidewalk of the store or mall. One still has =
to
cross the small road that passes through next to the store. =3D20 I =
would
strongly oppose such a law allowing people who are blind to have =
"handicap
parking." Of course as has been pointed out that's my right as a =
citizen. I
think special allowances have to be balanced with real and practical =
need,
because otherwise the price becomes to great in the message that is =
conveyed
to the public. Remember some accommodations are appropriate for certain
groups of people with disabilities. For example, Braille is only =
appropriate
for people who are Blind and who read Braille. Elevators are even an
accommodation for people with physical disabilities, but not for people =
who
are only blind or visually impaired and don't have any other disabling
condition. Special accommodations are never one size fits all and =
should
never be applied across the board. Remember, those law-makers hear all =
the
supporting reasons why people who are blind need x y z, and usually such
cases are presented rather strongly. So, in the case of people who are =
blind
needing handicap parking I'm sure they are told or left with the =
impression
that those people are easily disoriented, not very good at crossing =
vehicle
traveled passages and generally not as competent or independent as =
others
who aren't blind. It basically feeds their already held notion that =
people
who are blind are in-firmed and incapable of being independent. =3D20 =
Just my
opinion.
Terri Hedgpeth
Disability Research Specialist
Cubic, iCare box 87-8909
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-8909
(480) 727-8133 (voice)
(480) 965-2751 (fax)
http://cubic.asu.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: VICUG-L: Visually Impaired Computer Users' Group List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dan Rossi
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Visually Impaired And Disabled Tags.
George,
that is exactly my point, it wasn't my interpretation of the law. =
According
to Mary Blanton it wasn't the intent of the legislature to allow blind
people to use these parking spaces. She had to have the law changed.
You bring up some fine points, I don't typically use drivers. I am =
usually
with sighted friends who are doing the driving, or I walk to my local =
shops
independently. I agree that I would not want to be wandering around in =
a
busy parking lot looking for a car which I could not see. But your point
just doesn't seem to be valid about the intent of the legislature to =
include
the blind, if that had to be ammended to the law. That is where I am =
coming
from.
On Fri, 14 May 2004, George Cassell wrote:
> Dan said ...
>
> "The idea behind the handicapped parking spaces
> is to allow those who are "mobility impaired" better access to public=20
> places."
>
> That's your interpretation, Dan. But it's obviously NOT the intent of
the
> lawmakers who wrote the laws, and included those of us who are blind
or
> visually-impaired.
>
> If the lawmakers had intended these parking spaces to be reserved
solely for
> those who are,"mobility impaired," they would not have made them
available
> to those of us who are visually-impaired as well.
>
> As for what is "required" by a visually-impaired person, it is not for
you
> to say. If you can do without utilizing such parking spaces, then by
all
> means, park elsewhere. But some of us do find such parking spaces to
be,
> not just niceties, but necessities. For instance, I can't find our
car when
> it's parked somewhere out in the lower forty of a mall. I can't even
see it
> when I'm standing right next to it. So what am I supposed to do?
Wander
> aimlessly up and down the aisles of a busy parking lot, where cars are =
> coming and going, and backing out of parking spaces, without even
looking
> where they are going, endangering life and limb? I'm not about to
endanger
> my life, just to be, what you may well consider to be politically
correct.
> My life is worth far more than some high-minded ideal.
>
> When we park our car in a handicapped stall, I do not have to cross
against
> any traffic -- we're along the sidewalk that leads into the stores
we're
> going to shop in. I am capable of doing much of my shopping without
further
> inconveniencing the driver who brought me there. And so I do. When I
have
> my packages, I want to be able to take them to the car that brought
me,
> freeing myself up to do additional shopping.
>
> I can't do that, if I can't find the car, and I can't find the car, if
it's
> parked among the hundreds, or even thousands of vehicles in a busy
parking
> lot.
>
> But as I said, anyone who doesn't want to park there, doesn't have to
do so,
> and nobody is going to hold a gun to their head to force them to do
what
> they don't want to do. All I ask, is that people leave the rest of us =
> alone, and allow us to do whatever it is that we want to do, whether
or not
> others like it. We're perfectly legal, and entirely within our
rights. And
> if we're not, then we'll be cited, and brought to trial in a court of
law,
> and not by some kangaroo court of idealistic, yet not realistic people
.
>
> -- George
>
>
> VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> To join or leave the list, send a message to=20
> [log in to unmask] In the body of the message, simply
type
> "subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the quotations. =20
> VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at=20
> http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
>
>
>
--
Blue skies.
Dan Rossi
Carnegie Mellon University.
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
Tel: (412) 268-9081
VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
To join or leave the list, send a message to =
[log in to unmask]
In the body of the message, simply type "subscribe vicug-l" or =
"unsubscribe
vicug-l" without the quotations. VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide =
Web
at http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
To join or leave the list, send a message to =
[log in to unmask]
In the body of the message, simply type "subscribe vicug-l" or =
"unsubscribe
vicug-l" without the quotations. VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide =
Web
at http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
To join or leave the list, send a message to =
[log in to unmask]
In the body of the message, simply type "subscribe vicug-l" or =
"unsubscribe
vicug-l" without the quotations. VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide =
Web
at http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
To join or leave the list, send a message to
[log in to unmask] In the body of the message, simply type
"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the quotations.
VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
To join or leave the list, send a message to
[log in to unmask] In the body of the message, simply type
"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the quotations.
VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
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