On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Elizabeth Miller wrote:

> In a message dated 7/25/02 3:25:05 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> << The question you should be asking is why people suddenly began to
> consume, in increasing quantities, foods that according to you make them
> sick in any quantity. >>
>
> The article "The Origins of Agriculture" argued that the fact that they
> contain opioids more than likely was one of the contributing factors.

It's an interesting theory, but it has several weaknesses.
First, what would move people to eat grains in the first place,
to discover their opioid properties?  Second, at least some of
the earliest crops lacked these opioids: millet, rice, lentils,
etc.  Third, it is frankly hard for me to believe that the buzz
from wheat was so powerful as to overturn an entire way of life.

> The
> authors note that the consumption of grain led to poorer health -- and
> probably killed some outright -- but something was pretty compelling about
> grains to make people abandoned a WOE that had served them well for millenia
> and adopt a lifestyle that was so focussed  on one food.

True, but I am skeptical of the theory that the something was
opioids, especially when some of the grains, such as the rice and
millet that dominated in Asia, lacked them.

> Psychology is
> replete with experiments with rats and various drugs -- nothing would stop
> them from getting their fix -- nothing that is except death.

I'd like to see a comparable experiment using grains.

> Once saw an
> incredible documentary of some Amazon Indians before and after their
> immersion into Western life -- before they were hunters (some gathering),
> extraordinarily healthy and lean, sharp, intelligent with strong family
> bonds. After -- after the shock of work schedules and jobs and various
> illnesses and immunizations -- what was most incredible was the way all of
> them, adults and children, could not seem to get enough junk food -- white
> flour and sugar stuff.  Their formerly strong, healthy bodies deteriorated,
> their skin erupted, they grew fat and many even abandoned their children. It
> was a tragedy of the first order. Keep hoping the Discovery channel will play
> it again.

Well, this phenomenon is beyond doubting.  But there appears to
be something else at work in it.  Many of us can attest that a
high-carb diet, especially if the carbs are refined/denatured, is
itself addictive, regardless of whether there are opioids present
in the carbs.  There are people on this list who will act like
junkies if given enough fruit.  Nobody has identified opioids in
potato chips, but... If I had to choose which food makes me more
likely to act like an addict, it would be the potato chips and
not the opioid-containing whole wheat bread.

Todd Moody
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