Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:59:24 -0500 (updated 21 May 2002)
From: Ballew Kinnaman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ADMINISTRATION: What Should I Call This Thyroid Discussion?

Dear Thyroid Folks,

This may seem pedantic to those of you with extensive Internet
experience, so feel free to skip this message if you already
know what an e-mail discussion group is, as opposed to a
netnews newsgroup, a bulletin board, a newsletter, a chat
room, a chat line, or *whatever* else.

There has been confusion about what to call this Thyroid
discussion, so I wrote this message to try to explain what
we is and what we is not.

Foundation

This Thyroid discussion is managed by two entities - one robot
and one human. The robot is software running on a powerful
computer that is permanently (24 hours/365 days) connected to
the Internet. The human (I) connects to the Internet at random
times each day to do maintenance and other administrative
duties.

History: BITNET LISTSERV

Our administrative robot was created on a now historic part of
the Internet called BITNET.  The BITNET (because it's there)
network began in 1981 and connected the major ivy-league-type
universities on the east coast of the U.S.A. University researchers
discovered that e-mail was a great way to share information and
research findings, and they quickly invented ways to "gather"
people interested in the same topic (*any* topic) into e-mail
discussion groups.

Thousands, and now over a million, e-mail discussion groups
developed.  People (mainly the overworked list owners) soon
insisted that robot software should handle most of the
administrative duties, and BITNET LISTSERV was born. For
many years LISTSERV server software was available free.

L-SOFT LISTSERV

Eventually the software programmers who created BITNET
LISTSERV graduated and moved into the non-University world of
work.  The commercial version of LISTSERV is better, in many
ways, than the old free LISTSERV, so many universities and
corporations bought L-Soft LISTSERV, and today over a million
mailing lists are hosted on computers running LISTSERV
software.  The term LISTSERV has even become almost generic,
so that the leading competitors Lyris and majordomo are
often grouped in with LISTSERV as all being "listservs" or
"listservers."

Asynchronous E-mail Discussion

Our ongoing e-mail discussion is not "real time" due to two
simple facts: 1) Some member's messages are held for "review"
for up to 24 hours before I approve and distribute them, and
2) E-mail, while quick, is not instantaneous. {AOL or NetCom
may hold incoming or outgoing e-mail for hours, for instance.}

Because our discussion is ongoing but not real time, we call
it asynchronous e-mail discussion. Threads may develop, usually
based on a common Subject: line, and loops commonly occur, as
when a new member asks the same question that was heavily
discussed six-months or three years ago. Anyone who searches
the Thyroid Archives easily sees this phenomenon.

Another primary feature of our Thyroid discussion group is that it
allows two-way, one-to-many, and many-to-many communication.
Everyone can speak, and everyone can hear all the messages
at almost the "same time." Because one message instantly
'becomes' over 500 messages (to all members), historically this
sort of robot software was sometimes called an "exploder."

WHAT WE ARE NOT

The Thyroid discussion is not a newsgroup, not a board or
bulletin board, not a newsletter, not a chat, not a chat room,
nor a chat line, and Thyroid is also not a home or Web page
(although almost all services are now available at the Thyroid
home page).

Each of these things that we aren't have advantages and
disadvantages which do not apply to our Thyroid discussion
group - we CAN also be properly referred to as a Thyroid
discussion _forum_, although I prefer the informality of the
term 'discussion group.' Next, I'll try to give you a flavor of
each of these things we are NOT.

Not a Chat

Chat is almost always real time. There are several kinds of
chat commonly in use now, so the generalizations that follow
may be a bit too broad -- we'll see. Chat almost never has a
comprehensive, searchable archive of the discussion. Chat does
not use e-mail software (like Eudora, PINE, Elm, Pegasus or
Outlook). Chat commonly leaves no record *at all* of what was
said, and chat archives are as rare as hen's teeth.

Chat is a network resource hog. Not just because it's real time,
but also because chat needs powerful "central," often dedicated,
server computers to receive and "immediately" distribute the
messages.

Chat requires a high level of "management" to maintain the
quality of the discussion. For example, Internet Relay Chat
(IRC) has an elaborate system of ephemeral "police" powers
that certain members of a variable leadership group may use
or delegate.

Not a Newsletter

Newsletters, while they are commonly delivered by e-mail, are
not usually "discussions."  Newsletters commonly are periodical,
arriving once a day, once a week, once a month, etc. Subscribers
may OR may not have automated control of their subscription in
real time. Although some newsletters have "letters to the editor"
and some newsletters are quite responsive to feedback from
subscribers, newsletters rarely offer the kind of give and take
available when everyone can speak and listen at the "same time,"
as we can with an asynchronous e-mail discussion.

Newsletters now commonly provide teaser sentences designed
to attract attention to articles available on commercial Websites.
Newsletters also may carry on-topic and/or off-topic advertising.
One example of a newsletter is the "THYROID F.Y.I." newsletter
available at this commercial site:  http://thyroid.about.com

Similar to newsletters are 'announcement' mailing lists. The
information flow is one-way, *from* the newsletter publisher or
announcement mailing list owner *to* the subscriber. Subscribers
may OR may not have automated control of their subscription in
real time.

Not a Bulletin Board

Bulletin boards originated in the dial-up modem world of larger
cities. Boards were created when individuals connected one or
many modems to one or more computers, and allowed other
computer users with modems to call in and connect to the
board. Boards thrived on "local" calls because computer users
were not required to spend "long distance" telephone dollars to
use a local board. Boards can and do exist entirely separate
from the Internet. The Zmodem protocol (or one like it) is
commonly used to transfer information between a non-Internet
board and a user. [TCP/IP is the protocol of the Internet.
TCP/IP means transmission control protocol/Internet protocol.]

Some boards grew out of the basic Internet access right called
"remote login" or also called "telnet." These boards exist on the
Internet, and to use them you connect your computer to their
computer(s) over the Internet with software, commonly telnet or
EWAN, or even FTP (file transfer protocol) -- all of which use the
TCP/IP protocol suite.

Boards can house any number of resources including multi-user
games, chat, asynchronous discussion and more. Boards can
be distribution and exchange centers for "free software,"
pornography, or even legitimate e-mail in-boxes. Fidonet, an
inexpensive worldwide e-mail system, survives on just these
kinds of boards.  These "all purpose" servers are typically
powerful and can be expensive. Some boards require payment
for access, or payment for certain services. Some boards are
members only or "private."

Chat or discussions held on the board's server computer are
archived only if the server owner desires to save the
discussion. Rarely is there a 'copy' of the discussion available
on user's computers, and rarely is an archive saved. Chats and
bulletin board discussions are mostly ephemeral and "lost"
shortly after the message has left the speaker.

Web sites that contain bulletin board discussions are often
difficult to navigate and use, and these Web bulletin board
discussions are often full of dross because the bulletin board
operator cannot be bothered to keep the information value high
by keeping the bulletin board tidy.

Not a Newsgroup

USENET newsgroups are another form of asynchronous
communication that does not use e-mail software. Because
many newsreaders (the browser software for reading newsgroups,
such as Agent, Free Agent, Explorer or Netscape) are *also* able
to send and receive e-mail, this combination is confusing.

Over 70,000 newsgroups are commonly distributed worldwide now.
Probably 200,000 or more newsgroups "exist" locally here and
there, but are not commonly distributed out of a local area.
Newsgroups are housed on NNTP server computers (network
news transport protocol - part of TCP/IP). Only a few NNTP
computers are publicly available, and most NNTP servers now
require users to have a membership account of some kind ($).

NNTP servers are managed with policies like newsgroup X will be
preserved for 22 hours, newsgroup Y will hold only messages in
the last 30 days, or newsgroup Z will be held forever (or until
the server dies and is replaced, etc.). The news-server owner
also may or may not edit the contents of newsgroups.

Like chat and bulletin board discussions, USENET archives are
lacking or incomplete. http://groups.google.com/ carries many
newsgroups, but the vast majority of NNTP "news" from the 1980s
and the first half of the 1990s is lost forever, because news
servers do not permanently archive unless instructed to, and
many do not archive beyond a few weeks.

USENET newsgroups don't use e-mail, so your e-mail program
doesn't have a copy of what you sent or what you read. Your
"newsreader" software may or may not save a copy of what you
sent or read, somewhat like your e-mail program.

Newsgroups were invented in 1979 in North Carolina (USA) and
some newsgroups began to be moderated in 1984. Moderated
newsgroups were required because human beings don't always
like to read what other human beings want them to read. Keeping
the sheep from the goats is the duty of each newsgroup moderator
(if there is one) and lately cancelling SPAM attacks has been a
growing responsibility.

NNTP (USENET) newsgroups have a unique feature: Cancelling
allows you to "take back" your words before they are 'further'
distributed. The idea is that if you say something and quickly find
out you are wrong, you can reduce your embarrassment by
reducing the distribution of the errant message.

Most NNTP servers are connected to large networks of other NNTP
servers, so that a single day's increment in a newsgroup called
sci.med.pharmacy (for science medicine pharmacy topics), for
instance, can include messages (called netnews) originating at
NNTP servers in Canada, Germany, U.S.A., and Argentina.

Newsfeeds are now bought and sold so that your Internet Service
Provider's NNTP server may have only 8,000 or fewer newsgroups
if they censor your access or if they're cheap, or over 50,000
if they're free-wheeling and can afford the whole enchilada.

So We're An E-mail Discussion Group, Right?

Yup.

We have the advantage that we're using e-mail software which is
a basic to Internet access worldwide, and we have the superb
advantage that we have a 100% archive of everything that's been
said for lo these many months on Thyroid. The Thyroid Archive is
easily searchable, and the whole thing is free to members, with
very little advertising and no off-topic messages or advertising.

We're not a chat, not a bulletin board, nor a newsgroup because
we use e-mail software and we have an archive. We're not a
newsletter because everyone may speak to everyone else.

Thyroid is an e-mail discussion group, right?

Thanks for your patience with this diatribe. <smile>

Questions about this, or discussion of these matters, should be
sent to me only <[log in to unmask]>, please.

 Pax,
Ballew Kinnaman <[log in to unmask]> 206/463-2322
Discussion list owner: Allergy, Arthritis, Rubber, Thyroid

Thyroid
Discussion Group http://www.Emissary.Net/thyroid/index.html




_______________________________________________________________
                      Snip, Please
If you "Reply" to a message, and *you* fail to erase or delete
 the previous message, *your* message cannot be distributed.

Why not ask a question? If we're not currently talking about
what *you* want to hear about, ask about another topic! Or
make a statement. To be prepared, you might want to search
the Thyroid Archives http://www.Emissary.Net/thyroid/index.html
to see what has been said before about any thyroid-related topic.
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