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Here it is folks, sorry it's late. Got so busy this month!

I posted before that I think the question "GF milk?" is an accidental red
herring on my part, with the real problem I had being leaky gut from 10 days
of Doxycycline I took to kill the pneumonia I had. If you read that post
before you know I was taking L-Glutamine, but had stopped taking Kyolic's
"Friendly Trio" about a month before I got sick with whooping cough (which
turned into pneumonia on me). I then tried Lactaid Chewables a week later to
test myself with them to see if they would let me eat dairy again (not
knowing that the Chewables aren't GF, in fact I think the binder for them is
100% gluten). So the combination, leaky gut, dairy, and gluten, all combined
to hammer me very much, and it seemed I was getting classic gluten response,
but it started around the time I started drinking milk and eating cheese
during the Lactaid trial, and I jumped at the first conclusion I drew before
I found out about the Lactaid Chewables, which was gluten in the milk? From
there I posted the "GF milk?" post, and got many, many, many replies in
response.

Most of the replies seemed to be in favor of the possibility that a dairy
cow ingesting wheat can pass gliadin into their milk. However, most dairy
cows are not feed grains, but instead eat grass, so the amount of gliadin
they pass into their milk should be fairly small as to be probably
insignificant. The bigger problem a lot of you pointed to was the casein
protein situation. These are some of the comments about casein:

--- "I'd hazard a guess that possibly you have a problem with casein as well
as lactose, as I do. And casein is the milk protein, while lactose is the
milk sugar. For some of us, casein can break down at one point to
molecularly resemble gluten, and lots of us have problems with this. It's
also another thing that can damage the villi."
--- "No gluten in the milk. Sounds like you not only have lactose
intolerance but a true allergy to milk. Guess it's the casein (protein) in
the milk. It eats up the gut in a similar way to gluten if you are allergic
to it."

With regards to the possibility of gluten being eaten by an animal and
passed through it into milk or meat, one person sent me this:

--- "I can't say scientifically, but being a person that is celiac, has
raised cows (fed mostly oats, corn and alfalfa), I can say that I have NEVER
had problems with milk or milk products since diagnosis (I did have problems
before, but they went away after a while on the gf diet).  Do you have
problems with chicken?  Beef?  Pork?  Eggs?  Because those are also
by-products of animals that routinely eat gluten grains.  So, I would be one
of the people that says the "gluten in milk" theory is bunk.  More likely,
your system had reached its peak sensitivity at the same time you drank the
chocolate milk............a matter of coincidence."

A number of you sent me responses telling that human mothers can pass gluten
to babies via nursing. This I did not know and found interesting. However,
there's a big difference between the four stomach digestive system of the
bovine (cow) and the single stomach digestive system of homo sapiens. I can
understand gliadin making it into a human mother's milk. A cow on the other
hand I have a harder time believing that the gliadin protein could survive
the four stomach digestive process, then be used in the cow's mammary glands
to produce milk, and then make it into the milk. This is a comment I got on
the "mother passing gluten to baby" effect:

--- "WHEN HUMAN MOMS NURSE THEIR BABY AND EAT GLUTEN IT PASSES THROUGH THE
MILK BEFORE BIRTH AND AFTER SO IT IS WITH COWS AND THE ANTIBIOTICS THAT THEY
GET INJECTED WITH IS THE SAME IT GOES INTO THE MILK I talked it over with a
few friends and they all think it can happen. My one friend from India is
telling me to drink goat's milk. He says goats mainly eat grass, and he
thinks I'll have no problems with goat's milk or goat's cheese. UNLESS THEY
ALSO ARE GIVEN GLUTEN AND HOW DO YOU KNOW SO WHY NOT DRINK AND USE WESTBRAE
NATURAL RICE MILK ? IT WORKS IN EVERYTHING AND I MEAN EVERYTHING THAT IS
COOKED OR BAKED OR DRANK." (sic)

I did get a reply from one person who also had a problem with the Lactaid
product, an interesting reaction that I am posting here in full:

--- "Of interest the Lactaid tablets also had a bad effect on me.  First
time, no problems - managed a great cream-laden meal.  Several days later
and one more tablet, I got really unwell.  Nausea, swimming head, dizzy, I
just felt poisoned.  Third time - and yikes I was driving - I got to feel so
bad I had a hard time concentrating on the road.  If I hadn't had to deliver
a friend back in time for her appointment, I'd have stopped somewhere and
felt sorry for myself.  Just thank heavens we all got back safely.  The
Lactaids went in the bin upon my return and I won't try them again."

There were a few good explanations of the process of lactose intolerance in
Celiacs. I have read of the process before and found this one a good,
concise explanation:

--- "The specific protein is slightly different for all grains, and the
casein in milk is different from the grains.  Lactose intolerant celiacs
usually have had enough gluten irritation to 'rub off' the tips of the villi
that produce the lactase that digests the lactose in milk. --or maybe just
not enough recovery time.  This reaction really sounds more like lactose
intolerant. I would say give your gut more time, but you could be lactose
intolerant for other reasons, too.   Try the rice or soy milks and tofu
based cheese for a while, and I don't mean weeks."

And this speaks a bit to proteins in cow's milk:
--- "However, do be aware that milk does have opioid proteins that are very
similar to those in wheat, so we can have the same damage to the intestine
as if we are eating wheat. I do, but do not have the skin bumps appear when
ingesting it, like if I ate wheat."

There were many recommendations to switch to goat's milk and goat's cheese.
Most of the reasons had to do with goat's milk not containing the casein
protein. One person told me this about cow and goat feed:

--- "And, grass-fed cows (or goats) are a lot healthier. I keep a couple of
goats, and the goat-keepers all say -- only feed them a cup of grain a day!
(the grain they get has their vitamins, but they only get a little, and they
aren't eating goats at any rate). Cows and goats in the wild don't get grain
much: they get a little, when the grass goes to seed, and they love it, but
feeding them a full-grain diet is like feeding a kid nothing but candy. It
changes the entire chemistry of the beef. A grass-fed cow has the omega-3
ratio of a good fish, like salmon! I'd imagine grain changes the milk too,
probably into something less healthy." (sic)

This fellow pretty much told me my own opinion of this controversy I managed
to create:

--- "Cows do not pass gluten to us through their meat or milk. This is pure
and absolute bull (so to speak). Cows have four stomachs that completely
take care of any gliadin. Many, many, many people with CD drink milk with no
problem at all. They also eat beef with no trouble."

(I eat beef with no problems at all, BTW - Jerry)

I liked this one explanation, even though it is a bit off topic and covers
extra area:

--- "Cows digest and break down the grass and grain that they eat and
transform in into the proteins that they need either for their own muscles,
etc. or is needed for their calves to grow. From what I understand there is
no gluten in it. Besides gluten in and of itself cannot cause the reactions;
it is our own enzyme tissue transglutaminase that converts it so that our
immune system recognizes it as foreign and produces the reaction. There are
other factors as yet not understood that bring this about, since many people
have the gene to cause the immune system to recognize it as foreign, but
have no reaction.
I'm just considered gluten intolerant (as well as milk, eggs, yeast). When I
saw a GI for a colonoscopy, we were discussing my IBS and what I had figured
out and he said my milk problems were not due to lactose. I had already
figured this out. Apparently it is the proteins. Some people if they stay
off it long enough can consume it again. I did recently and had no problem.
I have not taken up a steady intake of milk products, because I believe I
may set myself up for the same problems again as I suspect you did by your
continued intake. I am content to allow myself to have a "cheat" every few
months and hope that I will have no problems."

--(end part one)--

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