All good points, Sheryl.  I would add that all those cute cows and lambs and
piglets and chickens would not be on the earth and never would have the
chance to be born if everyone felt like the vegetarians.

The point about Native Americans being reverent about the animals they eat
is an important one.  The Jews apparently had some concern for the animals
they eat, certainly Hindus have that reverence.  I guess many religions do.
Christianity, at least the Christianity that most Americans are part of, has
none of that and maybe that is why our livestock husbandry here in the US is
so abominable and inhumane.  It is a shame on modern civilization how our
farm animals are kept today.  If dogs or cats or pet birds were kept the way
that agribusiness has dictated animals be kept, the owners would be in jail.

Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sheryl Canter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Killing !


> I think the flaw in the thinking of moralistic vegetarians is the lack of
> recognition that we all die--everything dies.  Humans die, sheep die, cows
> die, fish die, chickens die.  It's not a question of WHETHER we die--it's
> when and how.
>
> Take deer hunting, for example.  I live in Vermont, but I moved there from
> NYC so many of my friends and family think that hunting is cruel and
odious.
> They seem to think that if hunters didn't kill deer, the deer would live
> forever.  In fact, they would die some other way, and that other way would
> likely be slower and more painful.  The hunters I know are expert shots,
and
> try very hard to kill the animal instantly with one shot to the head.
Isn't
> this a better way to die than starvation due to overcrowding?  That's what
> would happen to the deer in Vermont if there were no hunting, since the
other
> natural predators (besides humans) are no longer there--for example,
> catamounts.
>
> Back to the question of HOW we die... When an animal experiences terror at
> the time of death, all kinds of stress hormones are released into the
> bloodstream, and these hormones are in the animal's meat when we eat it.
We
> are eating fear--it's not good for us.  That's why kosher law has very
strict
> rules on how an animal is slaughtered.  It must be as quick as possible so
> the animal doesn't suffer.
>
> And then, of course, there is the question of how an animal lives before
we
> die.  It's not a good idea to torture animals we intend to later eat--for
> example, what commercial herders do to calves to produce veal steaks.  Or
> even what is done to regular cattle--overcrowding with preventive
> antibiotics, and hormones to increase size.  Not only is this not nice
(i.e.,
> immoral), the misery is reflected hormonally in the meat and ths is not
good
> for us.
>
> You have to live in a rural to eat wild game regularly (and be willing to
> hunt), but anyone with the money can choose to eat humanely raised and
> slaughtered meat and poultry.  If you are in a rural area, it doesn't cost
> more.  We buy whole cows or half cows from local farmers.  But we have to
put
> up all the money upfront, and we couldn't do this without a huge freezer
to
> store it.  If you buy grassfed beef online, you can buy less at once but
it's
> very pricey.
>
> In any case, I think the nutritional value of meat is so important that it
> outweighs the detriments of bad hormones released due to animal misery,
etc.
> I can understand a person choosing not to eat meat because s/he can't
afford
> grassfed organic meat and doesn't want to eat commercial beef, but I
believe
> his/her nutrition will suffer as a result of this choice.
>
> Those who don't eat meat because humans have no right to kill other
animals
> for food are (in my opinion) simply wrong.  We have every right to kill
other
> animals for food.  We also have a responsibility to do it quickly and
> painlessly.  Native Americans traditionally thank an animal before killing
it
> for giving its life to sustain their life.  I like this.  It's respectful
to
> both the human and the animal.
>
> Humans are part of the food chain.  The one odd thing about our position
is
> that we're at the tip top--no one eats US for food.  That doesn't mean we
> can't eat other animals for food.
>
>      - Sheryl
>
>