Kebba,
When this Jammeh thing is all over, you and I should go out for dinner to
get to know more about each other. Trust me you it could will be great
opportunity.

Malanding






On a more serious note,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dampha Kebba" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Attn: List Managers


> Mr. Camara, thanks for your response. With all due respect to you, I do
not
> think that the sequence of events went the way that you narrated. Correct
me
> if I am wrong, but I think Jaiteh sent a mail to G_L at 13:01 admonishing
> Prof. Assan for his mail. Then according to the mail Prof. Assan submitted
> to G_L, originating from Jaiteh to the List Managers and Assan, Jaiteh did
> not privately admonish Assan until 13:11; ten minutes later. I might be
> missing something here. But from my vantage point, Jaiteh took it upon
> himself to protest for Kebba Jobe and threatened to 'delist' Assan.
>
> I am no computer wiz but I can figure enough to know that you cannot
censor
> messages as they come in from active subscribers. What you can do as List
> Managers, is what Jaiteh did to Assan. You will apply your so-called rules
> inconsistently hoping that people will lose their tempers and voluntarily
> 'delist' themselves or say things that we might all regret.
>
> I deliberately try to fight my battles and respond to people when they
> offend me on G_L. I hope you understand that I am not trying to get you to
> 'delist' anyone on my behalf. I dealt with Alieu Keita and I can
adequately
> deal with Kebba Jobe. But is it out of place for me to ask where Jaiteh's
or
> the List Managers' sense of justice was when Kebba Jobe attacked me
> personally without substantiating what he was saying? Do not get me wrong.
> People can call me vulgar. But they have to make it stick. Show my
> vulgarity. Show my selfishness or my absurdity. If they cannot do that,
that
> is vicious personal attacks (lies) in my book. These are attacks that also
> deserve the attention of List Managers. Or is Jaiteh going to tell us that
> Kebba Jobe went to him whining about Assan's attacks?
>
> Let us apply the rules consistently. Did you follow your rules here by
> waiting for Kebba Jobe to complain? Did you follow that up be asking Assan
> to state his case before he was asked to apologize? Perhaps I am reading
the
> wrong rules here. The rules you sent deals with dispute resolution when we
> have a complaining subscriber. I could not find anything that deals with
the
> kind of language List Management would tolerate. I also did not see there
> provisions dealing with people that 'offend' G_L 'apologizing' to G_L.
> Again, maybe I am missing something here. But what Jaiteh purported to do,
> was admonish Assan for language Jaiteh thinks is offensive to List
> Management. Jaiteh also thinks that the language is offensive to all of us
> and therefore asked Assan to apologize to all of us. I am narrating what
> Jaiteh purported to do. But we all know that the apology was meant for
Kebba
> Jobe. Please quote us the specific provisions that say that language
> offensive to (Jaiteh) List Management and G_L is an 'expel-able offense'
> even where  the person the rhetoric affected, did not complain?
>
> You see, rules are very funny things. They can always come back to bite
> unexpected victims. Camara, I have a lot of respect for List Management
and
> the service you are provide for the Gambia. Because of that I will not get
> into it with you about Ebrima Ceesay as of now. As I said before, I do not
> know the full story from Ebrima's side. I was just giving my own
deductions.
> If you feel that nothing unfair was done to Ebrima by you, that is your
> prerogative. I am sticking to my view that List Management's handling of
the
> 'Alieu Keita' incident has something to do with Ebrima's withdrawal. I
will
> take your advise and contact him privately to ask him why he is silent.
> Thanks again for your contributions.
> KB
>
>
>
> >From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Attn: List Managers
> >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:09:11 +0200
> >
> >Mr. Dampha and Gambia-l,
> >Usually the list managers warn people privately if they feel that a
member
> >should be warned and this is exactly what Malanding had done. He sent a
> >copy of
> >the mail for the list managers to the subscriber in question in order to
> >show
> >that he is not doing any thing behind his back.
> >
> >Every email sent to the Gambia-l by subscribers are instantly received by
> >all
> >members subscribed on Gambia-l and on the web-interface without the
> >interference of Listmanagers so what harm can an APRC sympatiser
> >listmanager
> >do? Perhaph I need to be educated on that.
> >
> >Remember that Gambia-l is an open forum and anyone with an access to the
> >internet and an e-mail account can be a member. List managers are not
here
> >to
> >double check on any subscriber who sends a request of joining the List.
We
> >do
> >not see the list as a political forum and for only APRC, UDP, NRP or
PDOIS?
> >
> >Knowing that Gambians are generally not democratic by nature, we should
use
> >this service to its maximum in order to learn to be democratic. This is
one
> >of
> >the reasons that the list managers are giving everyone the chance to be
> >heard
> >without removing anyone just because they have violated once in a while
one
> >of
> >the rules by "Personal attacks and name calling directed to individuals,
> >groups
> >and/or organizations".
> >
> >I am sure you already know that any list manager can remove any
subscriber
> >from
> >the list at any time but that would defeat the purpose of the Gambia-L.
> >
> >On the issue of Ebrima Ceesay joining Gambia-l peepers, I think you
should
> >write to him and ask him his reason. I have not seen him sign off from
the
> >list
> >yet.
> >
> >Hamjatta, you can call us self appointed Ayatollahs but you should also
> >remember that Gambia-L is not a club but a service that is open to ALL
> >Gambians
> >and those interested in Gambian related issues.
> >
> >I hope I made myself clear even though I am not using The Queen of
> >England's
> >english. Danish is may daily language of communication:-)
> >
> >I am re-posting the Gambia-L Rules below, once again for everyone and
hope
> >that
> >we all try our best in order to make good use of Gambia-l.
> >
> >Momodou Camara
> >
> >  -------------------------------Start of Gambia-L Rules
> >-----------------------
> >
> >  GAMBIA-L RULES
> >
> >  1.     PREAMBLE
> >
> >  Gambia-L mailing list is for Gambians and friends of The Gambia to
> >discuss
> >  Gambia related issues. The list is a free forum for discussion, debate
> >and the
> >  sharing of information on and about The Gambia.
> >
> >  The precursor to Gambia-L was a mailing list started in 1994, following
> >the
> >  overthrow of the Jawara government.  The rapid growth of the Internet
> >resulted
> >  in more Gambians getting online and consequently an increase in the
> >number of
> >  subscribers to the original mail list.  This, together with a number of
> >  factors, warranted a much more powerful and flexible list management
> >system.
> >  Fortunately, the University of Washington in Seattle provided this
> >facility,
> >  resulting in the launch of Gambia-L on January 31, 1996.
> >
> >  GAMBIA-L is aimed providing Gambians and those interested in Gambian
and
> >  related issues, a means to communicate with each other, and exchange
> >ideas and
> >  information of common interest.  In the process, it is hoped that a
> >spirit of
> >  cooperation, of exchange of ideas, of healthy debate and dialogue for
the
> >  National good will be cultivated. True, ours might not be one of the
> >biggest
> >  lists, but we certainly can make it one of the very best in cyberspace.
> >
> >  To attain the excellence we aspire to, GAMBIA-L will makes maximum use
of
> >it's
> >  #1 asset: subscribers.  Thus, management of the list is shared by a
> >number of
> >  volunteers who will be rotated as and when needed.  Further, the list
is
> >  configured such that it will be easy to use, but also prevent it's
abuse.
> >
> >  Subscription to GAMBIA-L is open, and free to all, but conditional upon
> >  approval by designated list owners.  Subscribers are expected to
maintain
> >a
> >  mature and responsible tone in the contributions they send to the list.
> >It is
> >  hoped that our individual sense of responsibility, fairness, and
decency,
> >  coupled with the community policing of the list will help prevent, and
> >contain
> >  outbreaks of poor taste in our debates.
> >
> >  The usefulness of Gambia-L depends on the individual and collective
> >efforts of
> >  it's subscribers.  Toward this end, the following rules were developed
to
> >  ensure the existence of a healthy atmosphere for the exchange of ideas,
> >and
> >  dialogue on Gambia-L.  The rules will also provide a basis for
enforcing
> >  acceptable standards of behaviour on the list.  Subscribers violating
any
> >of
> >  the Gambia-L rules risk being expelled from the list in accordance with
> >the
> >  procedures spelt out below.
> >
> >  2.     THE RULES
> >
> >  1.  Postings on Gambia-L should not contain extreme, insulting, or
> >offensive
> >  language, pornographic material, notices of virus hoaxes, and chain
> >letters.
> >
> >  2.  Personal attacks and name calling directed to individuals, groups
> >and/or
> >  organizations are not permitted.
> >
> >  3.  Requests for subscriptions should be sent in private to Gambia-L
> >managers
> >
> >  4.  Personal mail should be sent privately, and not to the list
> >
> >  5.  Any subscriber or subscribers can object to a behaviour or
offensive
> >use
> >of  language on the list.
> >
> >  6.  A subscriber can complain about an offending posting by sending
mail
> >to
> >the offender, and Gambia-L managers stating the objection, and
sufficiently
> >identifying the offending posting.
> >
> >  7a.  The accused subscriber must, within 72 hours, respond to the
> >complaint
> >  with an apology and promise not to repeat the offence, or refute the
> >  allegations against him or her.
> >
> >  7b.  In that there is a disagreement about the gravity of the
allegation,
> >  Gambia-L List Managers will vote on whether the accused is guilty or
not.
> >
> >  7c.  If the offender is found by the majority of List Managers to be
> >guilty of
> >  the allegations, he or she must apologize to the person offended by his
> >or her
> >  posting within 72 hours.
> >
> >
> >7d. Failure to respond to an alleged offence or apologize after 3
> >working days will result in removal from the list.
> >
> >
> >8. An expelled subscriber may apply to rejoin the list three months after
> >his
> >or her expulsion.
> >
> >9. Applications to rejoin the list must be approved by a simple majority
of
> >LIST MANAGERS.
> >
> >  ----------------  End of Gambia-L Rules -------------------------------
> >
> >
> >On 6 Apr 2001, at 14:42, Dampha Kebba wrote:
> >
> > > First of all, Prof. Assan, I beg you like I did to other subscribers
> >before, not
> > > to 'delist' your self. Then, the forces of evil will win. Let the
> >Managers
> > > 'delist' you if they think that is the right thing to do. Again,
please
> > > reconsider your decision.
> > >
> > > For the List Managers (or their self-appointed spokesmen), I am
sending
> >this
> > > message in order for us to avoid a maelstrom on G_L. Your unfair
> >handling of the
> > > 'Alieu Keita' saga might have cost this forum the invaluable
> >contributions
> > > Ebrima Ceesay's Sources were making to this struggle. I cannot speak
for
> >Ebrima
> > > and I do not profess to know his real reason for not posting to G_L
> >anymore. But
> > > judging from the timing of Ebrima's departure and the way 'Alieu
Keita'
> >was
> > > handled, one can easily argue that the List Managers' behavior
> >contributed to
> > > why Ebrima left.
> > >
> > > This might have been inadvertent on the side of the List Managers;
i.e.
> >it
> > > was nobody's wish that we lose Ebrima and his Sources. On the other
> >hand, it
> > > might have been a deliberate ploy on the part of closet Yaya
supporters
> >to try
> > > and silence the brother. Well, if the latter is the case, let me save
> >you some
> > > time and effort. Trust me that it is nobody's interest that I be
> >alienated the
> > > way Ebrima was. I do not plan to unilaterally 'delist' myself; neither
> >do I plan
> > > to allow myself to be 'delisted' without a fight. I will go further
than
> >that
> > > and say that I will not sit silent and let List Managers pick on
people
> >that
> > > support my views.
> > >
> > > What is going on here? Is it now more acceptable to List Managers for
> >people to
> > > come here and tell vicious and unsubstantiated lies about people. When
> >Jobe was
> > > calling me names and not substantiating his rhetoric, did I hear List
> >Managers
> > > counseling him to stop lying about me? Why do you always have to jump
on
> >people
> > > that are attacking Yaya supporters back and giving them a dose of
their
> >own
> > > medicine? Why did you have to pick on Prof. Assan to remind us of
> >decorum in
> > > this forum? Are you trying to silence the brother? We all know the
> >rules. If you
> > > feel that someone has violated the rules, have the guts to step to the
> >plate and
> > > discipline that individual. But you would not do that because you know
> >that once
> > > you start applying the rules, you have to apply them uniformly. So,
> >instead you
> > > use these kinds of subtle tactics, hoping that people will lose their
> >tempers
> > > and voluntarily 'delist' themselves. Give us a break. In my book LIES
> >are worst
> > > than whatever Prof. Assan has said. List Managers condone lies from
APRC
> >but are
> > > eager to jump on people that want to jump into the gutter with APRC.
If
> >jumping
> > > into the gutter is the offense here, then admonish both parties. Not
> >just the
> > > people that are attacking APRC.
> > >
> > > I beg the pardon of List Managers that do not subscribe to Jaiteh's
> >ideas
> > > and also did not partake in the dirty tricks that were employed on
> >Ebrima
> > > Ceesay. I was just using the phrase 'List Managers' for ease of
> >reference.
> > > As for Jaiteh, I frankly do not get you. Is Lalo (who has been
kidnapped
> >and
> > > falsely accused by this illegal government), your brother? This is not
a
> > > rhetorical question. I really want to know, because it might help me
> >understand
> > > some of the positions you take on G_L. KB
> > >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >You may also send subscription requests to
> >[log in to unmask]
> >if you have problems accessing the web interface and remember to write
your
> >full name and e-mail address.
>
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>
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>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
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> You may also send subscription requests to
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