.
Reply to Amadeus,


>>>I agree that the real problem is the population growth.

This must be the major problem;  those who deny it faace
disaster!


>>But now we are 6 billion humans, what shall we do with
*these*?

In the USA China is condemmed for its birth
restrictions---No attentions is paid to the problem of
China--How could they feed their people if their population
doubled.  China understands starvation way better than other
countries as they have regularly suffered from severe
famine.  Few Americans acknowldge this,  they prefer to
condem China for trying to improve the lives of the Chinese
people.


>"If the Japanese were to grow enough food on
>land to replace the amount of fish they eat, they would
need seven times
>the amount of land which they presently possess."

THIS LIMIT IS NOW UPON US  The sea is getting crowded.

>>Compared to meat farms... Certainly not to soy or rice.
>
>Finally, there is no doubt that the present human
population is near or
>already exceeding the carrying capacity of the Earth.


>Hence, a rational
>long term plan should involve finding ways to reduce the
present
>population.

>>Sounds like a dream. They are hoping to find ways that the
population
doesn't skyrocket to 10 billion within short time.
Not to think about reduction. Humans live 70 years. Most are
< 10 years.
Even if these don't have children.. to reduce them would
mean to kill them.

REPLY   NOT;   No they are dying of starvation and it will
only get worse.

>1)  Cattle raisers have long known that if animals become
too fat, they
>become sterile;

>A new way of birth control?
Reminds me of "In Bayern ist essen angewandte
Empfängnisverhütung".
(In Bavaria, eatin is birth control applied).
Of a cabarattetist about the usual fat pig dish.

>
>2)  There is an inverse association between human birth
rates and amounts
>of animal proteins consumed daily, for example:
>
>Formosa:  birth rate, 45.6, daily animal protein intake,
4.7 grams
..
>Sweden:  birth rate, 15.0, daily animal protein intake,
62.6 grams

>>I think it's poverty what rises the birth rate.

>>Poor countries have large birth rates. The poorest slums
have big birth
rates. Rich countries have low birth rates. Like Sweden.
Rich countries can afford much expensive animal protein.
I think this makes up you your table.

>(de Castro provides a list of 14 nations illustrating the
inverse relation)
>A simple observation is that overpopulation is a problem in
nations where
>people have adopted a vegetarian diet, and populations are
stable in
>nations where people eat plenty of animal protein.

>>A simple observation is that overpopulated nations cannot
manage to nourish
their people other than the most effective way: vegetarian.
I think there's
nor disagreement between us, that it is.
Rich countries can afford to buy soy and other crops from
other countries
and feed it to animals.
Coincidentely rich people want less efforts for child
raising and can afford
birth control so rich countries have a low birth rate.

> Few would argue that H-Gs were more affluent than early
>agriculturalists.  Most commonly in fact it is argued that
agriculturalists
>have more food security, hence are more affluent, than
H-Gs.  Yet H-Gs
>had/have low birth rates, while primitive agriculturalists
had/ have higher
>birth rates; suggesting that the key factor is not
affluence (having food
>security or 'stuff'), but nutritional (protein vs.
carbohydrate).

>>Primitive agriculturalists have
- food security
- plenty of protein
- plenty of energy

LEFT OUT WAS regular  and PERIODICAL FAMINE!



>>>Besides my doubts, how would think that could be
accomplished?
I think if a country like China which lives close to it's
capacity, starts
to feed it's harvest to animals, then mass starvations would
be the result
of it.

CHINESE HISTORY IS A HISTORY OF FEAST OR FAMINE----The
Chinese are trying to soften this with birth control;  The
Americans are condemming the Chinese for this,  Of course
America has never had a nationwide famine so they can not
understand the Chinese.

IN Africa population control  was relentless war  (read the
bible for 1000 years ago and the newpaper for yesterday)  ;
now Africa is again severely overpopulated and in many
places very cruel wars are conducted.

Jane Goodal's study of Apes indicates that we Homonids are
the cruel animal;  Other studies show that  We  H. Sapiens
can  also  be very kind.

Best Regards,  Lorenzo