On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Amadeus Schmidt wrote:
> For 500g sunflower seeds I get 125 g protein
I was using USDA to arrive at 115g, but there's always some
variation between sources.
> That's more as meat would have. But should be more difficult to eat...
> (I can't imagine to eat a pound of meat nor sunflowers)
I find it rather easy to eat a pound of meat, even at one
sitting, although I don't think that's the best way to do it. I
think it would be rather hard to eat a pound of seeds. That was
part of my point.
> Thats 230% of the RDA, RDA is about twice the minimum needs on amino acids.
> That makes 4-fold what nitrogen balance reported as permanent need.
> And it means that 3/4 of these protein, 93g pure protein, would (everyday?)
> be downgraded to glucose. While the nitrogen part of it is made to ammonium
> and to urea and excreted.
> I think, 93g is not little if you have to piss is out...
I have doubts about all of your assumptions concerning protein.
For this I am more inclined to go by Lemon's estimates, as Sears
and the Eades do. You're probably already familiar with Mike
Kurilla's article on this subject at John Weaver's excellent
zonehome.com library, but if not:
http://www.zonehome.com/zlib0001.htm
Roughly, Lemon recommends between 5.g and 1g of protein per pound
of LBM (or about 1-2g/kg), depending on activity levels. For me
this comes to about 140g/day, and I routinely consume this much,
without any difficulty at all. If I had to get it from seeds, I
would have problems.
> >So far, so good. But I will also have to
> >ingest about 165g of omega-6 fat, while also getting only .35g of
> >omega-3. The w6:w3 ratio is 471:1 -- not exactly balanced.
> >Other seeds would be similar in this respect.
>
> Pumpkin seeds report better ratios, but with a great variation.
> I'd definetely not eat that much. Maybe 1/8 of this (1/2 RDA) as a add on.
Well, if I eat 500g of pumpkin seeds, I'll get 123g of protein,
so that's comparable to the sunflower seeds. And I'll get 2,700
kcal of energy, so I may not want to eat much else. But the
w6:w3 ratio is still about 115:1.
> Then the w-6 fat is easy to compensate and a valuable EFA source.
I think 100g of w6 is way too much. To bring that ratio down to
4:1 or less I would have to consume 25g of more of w3 fat. Where
am I going to get that from paleo plant sources? I could eat
about 138g of flax seeds (and I'd get another 5g of w6 fat in the
process). It would also add about 678 kcal to my total. And in
any case, if I ate that much flax seed I think I'd experience
pretty extreme diarrhea.
So if we accept Lemon's protein recommendations, the prospects
for satisfying them by eating paleo plant foods are very poor.
> >I interpret this as another of the "costs" of a low-protein diet:
> >one must introduce the discipline of fasting to achieve a result
> >comparable to what eating animal protein would bring about.
>
> Are you feeling hungry in the morning? I seldom do.
> Prolonging the night gap (a little) would be easy for me.
It varies. But if I don't eat breakfast I am more likely to lose
control of my eating later in the day.
> >Eating animal protein does not change the acidity of blood.
>
> To my information *any* protein changes the acidity more to the acid side.
> Do you have different information?
According to every physiology text I have looked at, the pH of
blood is maintained within a *very* narrow range, no matter what
is eaten.
> As I told before, I don't see this only nutritionally.
> To be vegetarian is also a quest.
I understand that, and like many quests your has a sacrificial
aspect. By avoiding animal protein you make it difficult or
impossible to achieve nutritional goals that are relatively easy
to achieve otherwise. I realize, however, that it may be worth
it to you to do so. Nutritional goals are not the only goals
that matter.
> I'll probably re-introduce some white cheese after some time, as every year.
> I'll do it 'cause I like it.
> Particularly quark with flax oil (that's the Budwig food).
> Then I'll have back animal proteins and be less paleo, unfortunately.
I was thinking of the "Bambi cheese" argument again recently, as
I watched a television program about lions killing water buffalo.
The narrator made the point that the lions' victim is usually the
oldest or the youngest, since these have the greatest difficulty
staying within the protective radius of the herd. The youngest,
of course, are the suckling calves, also a source of
rennet-fermented cheese. It still makes sense to me that the
same principle of victim selection would apply to human hunters.
Therefore, availability of cheese did not have to wait for
domestication and pastoralism.
Todd Moody
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