***SORRY... don't know what happened to the quoting and formatting in the
previous post... here's an attempt to clean it up...***

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:15:41 -0700 toni mettler <[log in to unmask]>
writes:

>Again, I do not think it is correct to say that compulsive overeating is
>attributed to almost everything except excessive carbohydrates, as you
>stated. Most eating disorder professionals including doctors,
therapists,
>registered dietitians, etc. know there is a psyiological effect of sugar
>in the body. People have been talking about it for years. Have you not
>heard people reffering to the "sugar blues" even before we new what we
do
>today? (Look for a book called "The Sugar Blues." I forget the author's
>name.)

I don't know what medical/nutrition authorities you've been listening to,
but they most assuredly DO blame everything but carbs, ESPECIALLY the
patient, for overweight...  If it's not "just eat sensibly," or "push the
plate away," it's drugs and psychiatric therapy.  Yes, a very few "health
food" types will condemn refined sugar, while still pushing grains and
starchy foods, but when it comes to actually identifying ALL dense
carbohydrates as a potential problem, it comes down to a reviled few like
Atkins, and the Eades.  Even many of those who preach a "lower"
carbohydrate approach, like Barry Sears and the Hellers, will attack
plans (like Atkins) which cut carbs below the levels that THEY recommend.
(note that Sheryl's presentation is virtually identical to these
folks'..)

Yes, I'm familiar with the book .  How many MDs do you think would
recommend it to their patients?  I suspect that the number is growing,
but it's still small.

>Maybe the "other" causes of compulsive overeating are not relevant to
the
>subject of this specific list. However they are very relevant to our
>discussion because the diagnosis of bulimia, anorexcia, non-purging
>bulimia, compulsive overeating greatly effect the person both
>psychologically and phyiologically.

In my opinion, if that's the turn the "discussion" has taken, then it is
outside the scope of this list, but that's not my call to make.  I will
not pursue that like of discussion here, save to say that I believe that
the modern high carb diet is the root cause of many problems like these.
They can certainly progress to far more serious problems which cannot be
fixed simply by altering the diet.  My personal opinion is that if the
general population followed a diet much closer to paleo, and/or lowcarb,
the incidence of these deeper, more serious problems would be greatly
reduced  (but probably NOT eliminated).

>The question I pose to you, Wally, is what kind of benefit do you get
>from judging others? Do you feel some sort of satisfaction because you
>can resist temptation that others can not?

Benefit?  Oh, I dunno... if I see someone stumbling down the street
muttering, with a knife in his hand, I'm probably going to judge that I'd
probably be better off avoiding bumping into him.  As a citizen of a
democratic republic, I am called upon periodically AS A DUTY, to judge
some of my fellow men and women for their appropriateness to hold offices
of public responsibility.  Forgive my "tone," but confusing "JUDGING"
with "PREJUDICE" is pure idiocy, and confusing general prejudice for
condition, with prejudice for word or deed is just as bad.

>Regarding you comment of general prejudice...I feel you are
contradicting
>yourself at the root of the issue...is there not a general prejudice
>againt fat people? I see a contradicton...it is not okay to have a
>general prejudice (for which we have against fat people), but it is okay
>to judge people for making an informed choice to become addicted to
>sugars which lead them to overweightness

Sorry, but you do not seem to have understood a thing I said.  I am
against invalid general prejudice.  Judging someone for what they ARE is
invalid.  You cannot make any valid judgement about an individual because
they are fat, thin, white, black, tall, short, make, female, etc...  You
CAN make LIMITED valid judgements based on statements and actions.  Show
me someone who chooses to call himself a Nazi, and I'll darned well make
a judgement...  Is he kind to children and small animals?  dunno...  Is
he a carbohydrate addict?  dunno...  Is he a potentially dangerous
psycho?  dunno, but I'd be a fool to consider him otherwise...

Now take Amadeus... (please...).  I judge him to be a fanatic, and a
troublemaker.  Otherwise, he would not have spent so much time banging
his head against a wall on this mailing list.  I also think he's sincere
(though deluded).  Nobody could keep up that kind of an act if their
heart wasn't in it.  I also judge that he's probably a pretty interesting
person, and I'd have great fun having lunch with him (so I could wave my
extra rare prime rib at him), and he's probably enjoy it too (suggesting
that I add some raw worms and maggots to it...).

But you're right... this diversion is way off base.  It started with a
pile of misinformation about low levels of dietary carbohydrates, and has
been twisted into a personal attack.  I hope you're pleased with yourself
for getting it this far, but it DOES stop here.  If you want to discuss
facts, I'll respond, but if you want to continue to try to assassinate
someone's  character, you'll have to look for another victim.
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