On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, judy genova wrote:

> Here are the same consistant readings.  ALso, my blood pressure is 100/60,
> and my weight is 118 at 5'4". My blood glucose is always low too.
>
> TOTAL CHOL. 188
>
> HDL ("good") 88
> LDL ("bad")  100
> Triglycerides 34* <"acceptable" range at Sloan Kettering is 50-140>
> HDL/TOTAL CHOL RATIO 2.34

Those are certainly "good numbers" in anyone's book.

> Before I became a cavegirl, I was a macrobiotic (almost vegan) and my total
> cholesterol was 125, mostly comprised of LDL, with hardly any HDL.  Then, I
> toyed with adding lots of raw fermented dairy and game  to my grain heavy
> diet.  My cholesterol shot up to 220, (120 HDL and 100 LDL.) and my
> triglycerides were 88.  Then I got sick, and that's basically where this
> story starts...

Your second set of numbers here are not bad either.  A total
cholesterol of 220 is not considered high when your HDL is 120.
It's interesting that switching to paleo has actually caused your
HDL to drop by almost a third.  Your triglycerides, which were
already quite good at 88, dropped even more, so the TG:HDL ratio
improved.

I would point out that you don't appear to have a tendency to
elevated cholesterol in the first place.  Some people do and some
don't.

> Also, Todd, have you thought about high Vit. C  supplementation as a way to
> lower triglycerides?  I was just reading through Dr. Atkin's Age Defying
> Diet Revolution, and he has some interesting thoughts about ways to lower
> LDL and triglycerides.  Also, have you checked your thyroid levels lately -
> especially TSH?

Yes, I've tried vit. C supplementation, with no observable
effect.  Niacin too, with some effect, but not much.  My total
cholesterol pre-paleo was 226, with HDL of 32.  I don't remember
my LDL and TG, although they can be computed from these numbers.
After about three months of strict Neanderthin, my total
cholesterol went to 302, with HDL=35, LDL=240, and TG=96.  In the
three years between then and now my total cholesterol has
fluctuated, but never lower than about 260 (except once), but my
HDL has slowly gone up, to about 50, which is what it is now.  TG
has remained at about 100, give or take.  If I am gaining weight,
it goes up.

All thyroid tests are normal.

> I am not suggesting that everyone follow my version of paleo eating.  But I
> do find it interesting to test some of the principles of Neanderthin.  And I
> do recall Ray stating that one of the common errors of newbies is to deny
> themselves the amount of fat necessary to provide adequate energy.  I also
> recall Ray mentioning that the way to increase LDL (in something like 6
> weeks...) was to increase grain consumption.  I don't have my book nearby,
> or I'd be more accurate.  But I am curious Todd, if you may be indulging in
> too many carbs, like potatoes, etc. Then again,  you may be doing everything
> "to the letter", and perhaps, the reason for your elevated triglycerides has
> to do with other factors (Atkins mentions cytomegalic virus among other
> hidden causes as instigators of heart and circulatory degeneration).

It's also possible that Ray is just wrong.  My carb intake is
often zero, seldom above 50 or 60g.  I have tried various levels
of strictness; my highest cholesterol readings were obtained when
I followed Neanderthin "to the letter," eating pemmican, etc.

The Nobel Prize was awarded for the research demonstrating that
certain saturated fats downregulate LDL receptors in the liver,
so I don't think it is entirely unexpected that a diet high in
those fats should cause LDL to rise.  What's harder to understand
is why it doesn't rise in some people, but rises dramatically in
others.

Again, my TG:HDL ratio has improved, and that's the one I've
decided to watch, probably for psychological reasons of
self-validation as much as anything else.  Most people, including
my doctor, and not thrilled by my lipid numbers.  When I discuss
paleo eating with people, the first thing they ask about is my
cholesterol.  When I tell them, they shake their heads in
incomprehension.  They don't understand why anybody would
willingly eat in a way that sends their cholesterol into what
most authorities would consider the danger zone (red alert!).  I
can explain about Gaziano's research and the TG:HDL ratio, but of
course even Gaziano doesn't argue that this ratio makes all other
lipid numbers irrelevant.

Life is about choosing risks.  For the time being, I've chosen
the risk of high cholesterol, hoping that the benefits outweigh
it.  I don't think there's anyone on the planet who knows whether
I've made the "right" choice.  Others may want to make a similar
choice, or not.

Incidentally, you had asked about the cholesterol values of
hunter-gatherers.  I believe the Samburu, who eat almost nothing
except meat and dairy, have average cholesterol readings of 150.
But their average caloric intake is also rather low.

Todd Moody
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