> Oops, I've monocytes at 12.... what is my body cleaning out??
>
Don't know, but I'll generously give you whatever gargbage is knocking
mine up to 24:-)

> I wrote:
> >> To avoid dysbiosis (and establishing flora) many points have been
> mantioned
> >> by natural doctors, like:
> >> - a high fiber diet (seems to encourace the symbionts)
> >> - eating some plants containing strong toxins (mainly for bad bugs)
> >>   like garlic,raddish, origanum, several strong herbs.
> >>   Even several antinutrients may be among the necessary ones.
> >>   E.g. phytin (which is even available as a drug) or lectins.
> >> ....
> >>
> >Been there, done that.
>
> I think that's difficult to claim.
>
Yeah.  In the end, there's so much disagreement on some of this stuff
that most folks go with whatever works for their individual situation.
When most of them are in agreement, or when they site numerouse case
histories, I tend to trust their theories more.

> Starting at fibers, it's not clear which ones are best (soluble insuloble)
> or they could be *added* (some add bran, i think that makes worse).
> And which plant agency works? It appears you have tested some.
> Could you mention some, and your experiences?
>
Well (she says like an old cronie), this was a couple years ago, when I
was really sick and foggy after a 13-year vegan diet--2 years of blur.
But I'll do my best to recall.

Oregano oil; grapefruit seed extract:  mean stuff...just like
antibiotics.  Kills off the beneficials too.  Won't use the GSE again,
may use the oregano in its rotation.

Uva Ursi (bearberry):  Didn't notice any difference, but did develop an
IgG reaction to blueberry, which I hadn't eaten in years (same botanical
family).

Capryllic acid (from coconut, I think):  Works for me, but I didn't dose
it high enough or long enough, I guess.

Rosemary, clove, a bunch of other culinary herbs:  Didn't notice any
difference, but then, I didn't eat them in huge quantities.

Garlic:  Made things worse, as I developed a very high IgG reaction but
didn't know it until I got the immune response test.

Liver herbs (dandelion, milk thistle): Couldn't take one capsule or one
cup of tea without the feeling of razor blades slicing through my guts.
(I theorize this was because I had little or no intestinal mucosa, due
to vitamin A deficiency from the long term veggie diet coupled with a
malfunctioning thyroid that would not convert carotenes into vit A.  The
increase in bile flow from those herbs probably irritated the hell out
of my small bowel and colon.  Add to that the terminal ileum resection I
had that diminishes bile reabsorption and, ouch!  After six months of A
supplementation and lots of almost-raw liver, I'm able to handle
dandelion root now.  See...this is where the indvidual's physiology play
its part.)

Fiber (pectin, psyllium and just plain fruits and veggies in large
amounts): No good for me...Crohn's Disease.

I know there's more, just can't think of them right now.

> >
> >You're quite ambitious getting into all that Krebs Cycle stuff (yawn),
> >Amadeus.  I just wanna go outside and play! (instead of reading about
> >all this biochemical, microbiological stuff.)
>
> I guess that's yawn for most who once learned it.....
>
Well, we're all different.  That's what makes any species interesting
within itself.  Some of us find the art of science fascinating in terms
of what biochemistry makes the maple leaf turn gold in the autumn.
We're curious for a while, but soon tire of looking that closely.  I
take the greatest pleasure in simply admiring the color, feeling
priveledged that I can see in color, and finding wonder in that the
tree, year after year, somehow knows how to progress in its life cycle
(without having the mind of a biochemist, or a mind at all, for that
matter).  I'd sooner swing with joy in its boughs than dissect it's
leaves.  And, not wishing to take the miracle of life for granted at
this point, I prefer to spend my short time here with what gives me the
greatest pleasure.

On the other hand, there are those of us whose greatest pleasure is
derived by dissecting the leaves.  This is okay too.  It's those folks
who I can thank for furnishing me with hints and methods as to how I can
more fully enjoy the art of life.  It's the pleasure that they take in
studying the microcosom that adds that extra tinge of wonder to the
process of life for those of us who find the most joy in the macrocosom.

(Sorry, don't mean to get too cosmic here....  Just another point about
individuality.)

> What makes me beeing behind it is the bad availability of coenzymes in
> "normal" diets. People just "give up" getting even RDA amounts by natural
> sources.
> And/or take supplements which i am very suspicuous of that they only carry
> parts.
> I take it as a indicator for natural food sources (like some fruit are not).
> And i find it fascinating that it can explain mass occuring problems with
> carbohydrates. At last they are the most natural energy source...
>
> What you say about playing.... weather is fine out....
>
High winds and snow flurries blew the few straggling leaves away here
last night.  But the sun's coming out now...I think I'll go check out
the view from the top of that maple rather than commenting here...;-)

Lois