Siobhan:
<<<I think there's some confusion here in what I am trying to convey.

Peter:
<<Does this mean that you misquoted Casey?

Siobhan:
>No. How did you reach that assumption? I quoted verbatim.

Because you were making a destinction between fluoride and fluorine
that was not reflected in your quote of Casey.  Your quote of
Casey stated:

"These are minerals that are required in the diet for
full health, and when the intake is insufficient, symptoms of
deficiency will arise. They include nine known to be essential:
zinc, copper, selenium, chromium, manganese, molybdenum,
iodine, fluoride, and cobalt. "

Siobhan:
>I think there's some confusion here in what I am trying to
>convey. This site speaks of fluoride as it is added to water
>and used to make products. I'm talking about the trace
>mineral fluorine as it occurs naturally in:

According to the Fluoride Action Network at
<http://www.fluoridealert.org/NOS-fluoride.htm>
they are different forms of the same element
for which we have no nutritional requirement:

"Fluorine is one of 92 naturally occurring elements. It is
a member of the halogen family, which includes chlorine,
bromine and iodine.  It is a pale yellow gas which is
extremely reactive. As a result it is never found free in
nature but only combined with other elements. These
compounds are called fluorides. Fluorine readily forms
compounds with all elements except two: helium and neon.
Despite being the thirteenth most abundant element in the
earth's crust, it is not an essential nutrient for any living thing. "

Peter:
<<And the dangers of naturally occurring fluoride as well.

Siobhan:
>Well, then I guess that the foods listed should not be eaten,

Foods that contain large amounts of fluoride should IMO
be avoided as much as possible.  Even organic foods can
have high amounts because of the fertilizers used.
Go to: <http://www.fluoridealert.org/NOS-fluoride.htm>

Siobhan:
>nor should any other foods that contain organic trace
>minerals?  Fluoride is not organic.  Fluorine is organic
>and naturally occuring in foods and trace minerals.

Because something is "organic" does not necessarily
mean that it is good for you.

Siobhan:
>Fluorine can be found in the naturally occuring minerals
>in water.

It appears, only as a fluoride.

Siobhan:
>Fluoride is what is added.

Not always.  Well water in China and India has dangerous
levels of naturally occurring fluoride.  Artesian water
like "Trinity Water" from your health food store has
about 3.5ppm.

Siobhan:
>There is no way that trace amounts as they naturally
>occur in foods and water are dangerous.

That is not what the studies show and is why
some countries are spending a lot of money
to filter out naturally occurring fluoride out
of their drinking water.

Siobhan:
>It is inorganic matter that carries a positive charge
>and is too alkaline for the body to utilize.

This does not sound right.  At what ph level
does an element become too alkaline?

Richard:
>>>>Certainly there can be too many of a naturally
>>>>occurring trace element in water that can be dangerous.
>>>>Too much arsenic may be naturally occurring but
>>>>toxic, for instance. Fluoride might be naturally occurring
>>>>in tea leaves but might be injurious to someone who drinks
>>>>a lot of tea. Some plants are known
>>>>to aggregate selenium in toxic levels ("locoweed")

Exactly.

Siobhan:
>I've never seen locoweed in the produce section of my
>natural food store.  But, there is plenty of kale, with
>naturally occuring fluorine.

I would go easy on that kale. "Natural" is not always good.
Besides, how do you know that the fluorine in the kale
got there "naturally"?

Siobhan:
>But the question remains is fluorine dangerous?
>The answer is no, not in normal trace organic
>mineral amounts. Is fluoride dangerous? You bet.

I do not believe there is a "normal" trace amount.

Siobhan:
>Fluorine (fluoride) The major tissues known to incorporate
>fluoride are bones and tooth enamel. Fluorine appears
>to increase deposition of calcium,  thereby strengthening
>teeth and bones.

Sounds like out of a brochure from the American Dental
Association. ;-)

Siobhan:
>Levels in drinking water artifically fluoridated with
>sodium fluoride can often reach toxic
>levels which then has adverse effect on many enzyme
>systems in the body.

Unfortunately,  it appears that naturally occurring fluoride
is equally toxic.

Siobhan:
>Dr. Carey A. Reams, biophysicist and biochemist, found
>that the human body requires 84 of the basic elements
>(out of the known 106 elements) to maintain good health.

Nobody is disputing our need for trace elements.  The question
is which ones?

Peter