Ok, Michael, you win 'cause I'm confused and I deleted most of our thread.

Regarding point #2:  Right again!  I give you T. Jefferson as proof.  Good
moralist, perhaps.  Definitly not Xian.  Regards your last sentence in para.
1:  Well, didn't the Isrealites under Saul, David and Solomon keep their war
plunder?  Such is the spoils of war.  I haven't a problem with this and
think, objectively, that the resources of any vanquished nation who attacks
first deserves to be despoiled as payment for their attempted hegemony.

Hoo-Yah!
"From the Halls of Montezuma" n' all that.

-Kyle



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael H. Collis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 5:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Our Future (WAS:democratic pregnancy)


Who said agape love was normative?  I would consider agape to be
unnormative.
The love of people in community is phileo love, and that is where our
"Nationalism"  such as it is, comes from.  "Scr*w Iraq, let's fight them
m*****-f*****'s for our oil."

I have one other thing to say.  The United States wasn't, is not now, and
never
will be a Christian nation; a religious nation, perhaps. The term  Christian
Nation is an oxymoron, and Jesus had the sharpest rebuke to those who said
G-d
was on this or that side.
Mike

"Cleveland, Kyle E." wrote:

> Agree with your defs, but I never would have considered Agape normative.
> What I'm saying is that even "family love" is on the rocks and the
exception
> to the rule in the rich West.
>
> -Kyle
>