On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:16:19 -0400, Todd Moody <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>> As I reasoned before, I would expect
>> the change the main energy source to fat to have major improvements.
>> And so showed the study.
>
>But you *shouldn't* expect it if the high percentage of
>long-chain saturates in these diets is causing havoc in cell
>membranes and prostaglandin.  Note also that Dr. Lutz has
>recorded significant improvements in *many* disease processes,
>including cardiac function and many gastrointestinal disorders (a
>specialty of his, I believe).
>
>Can you find any empirical evidence that a low-carb diet causes
>any health problem?'

No, i haven't any reason.
As possible problems i could *estimate* that the LC requires bigger amounts
of protein (to generate the glucose for the tissues it's essential for)
and any problems that could arise from this.
Maybe nitrogen detox symptoms for (slightly(?) kidney diseased.

Or any problems from farmed meats (as is is usually done with meat for
protein). Firsthand i mention the low EFA problem. Then whatever
pesticide or hormone accumulation due to the farming methods
(the same is possible for many modern food items).

Ketosis seems not to put any problems for the brain, does it?
I mean headaches, tiredness or such.
I think you and the many low-carber on the list can report  best.

>> .. fragile factor here is thiamin..
>Well, I agree with this to some extent, but it is still an open
>question whether this is and adequate explanation of the problems
>of high carb consumption.  One would expect, for example, that
>people who eat lots of whole grains and fresh vegetables would
>not experience these problems, but I don't think that's the case.

Cereals have some thiamin surplus (for own growth) so they can be cooked
(reducing thiamin) and still have adequate amount.
Modern grain eaters are often people which also like to have much
sweets.
I think that the grain and vegetable diet of back centuries (with
rare sweets), like roman or middle ages had very rare reports whitch could
be interpreted as glucose sensibility.

What you *can* find as a cereal problem when looking to back nutrition
habits and disease reports are the cereal toxins.
E.g. the romans had a sort or grain in stock which was produced by
first germinating and then drying the grains. Low-phytin and low toxin
cereals. Roman even importen rice for this reason (as a diseased food).

>Diabetes known in the ancient world and described in medical
>writings.
I haven't found any text like you report. Can you point toward some texts?

It should have been a very common disease, for a populaten with > 90%
of food of grain or legume. But i looks like it was rare.

>>pyruvate decarboxylase..
>If so, then it is this, and not the SFAs in cell membranes, that
>is causing insulin resistance.  This suggests an easy test.  A
>small amount of brewer's yeast with high-carb meals ought to cure
>insulin resistance, since brewer's yeast probably has more
>thiamin and other relevant sugar-processing enzymes than any
>other substance.

Yes!
Not in a single meal, because insuling reception is ruled by
insulin receptors which must have been downregulated, requiring upregulation
again.
And some other enzyme pathways must have built up needing downregulation,
e.g. the increased construction of fat from glucose must have built some
enzymes waiting.
I recall for example with coffee it needs some 3 weeks that the receptors
adapt to a non-coffeine environment and mormalize.
So 3 weeks of added brewers yeast should be able to cure insulin resistance.
A little pyridoxin (B6) should be added too, because it is required for
releasing glycogen storage into blood again. And yeasts don't do that.
They have about 1/4 RDA of b6 at 100% rda of thiamin.

The amount for one day thiamin RDA could be about 30g yeast.

..
>>... (Lutz and) high-fat diets ....
>
>But what about the many other improvements that are seen?  For
>example, in my own case the most remarkable one was the curing of
>long-term periodontitis. ..  This condition almost disappeared when I
>switched to low-carb diet, and did disappear when I added some
>vitamin C (which would have been present in the organ meats I
>wasn't eating).

What do *you* suspect to be responsible for your cure?
Vitamin A would be a good candidate, but you need to have had liver.
In *amounts*, meat provides a good supply for many vitamins.

>> If the diet is high in 16:0 or 1 and 18:0 or 1 (long chain) saturates
>> *in relation to EFAs* other diseases and quicker aging will result.
>
>Caused by what?  The saturates are less oxidizable and therefore
>less likely to cause free radical damage.  Lower glucose levels
>also mean reduced incidence of glycation reactions.  Free radical
>damage and glycation reactions are believed to be important
>contributors to aging processes.

Again,I would not want to blame SFAs in general. They are necessary and are
made by nature as required (I too had 18:0 in my blood in a medium amount
despite very small dietary intake).
"Low" glucose levels are what is normal 2 or 3 hours after a meal.
That's most of the time. Otherwise it's diseased.
Reading the Erasmus book suddenly revealed to me how low EFAs levels can be
further disabled by high amounts of competing fatty acids.
Not only by the study mentioned (which i found also cited in other places,
also at WestonaPrice) but also by understanding which substrates the
necessary enzymes work upon (d6- and d5- desaturase and elongase).
There's a nice graph for this pathways in the erasmus book (in some early
chapter).

Hard SFAs, and MUFAs do require elevated intake of the essential fatty acids
is the conclusion. And the analysis of natural food sources, may it be any
plant, wild game or even non-fed-up livestock, shows that EFAs normaly occur
in appropiate ratios (EFA/(MUFA+LCSFA) > 0.21).

>.. There is simply no evidence that low-carb diet contributes to CVD
>or cancer, so why would you expect it?

Its not against LC approaches. Basically the above conclusion blames only
the fat of farmed animals, especially beef.
It could be outequaled by adding other fat sources.
For example by 10 to 20% of hemp oil or flax or flax+sunflower.

What main reasons would you blame for the currend CVD and cancer rates
anyway? I think of nutritional factors at first.
1.Trans fats+bad fats.
2.prostaglandin malfunctioning
3.deficits on many vitamins,particularly Bs (glucose) C,E (antiox.) and...

>.... On a low-carb diet, even high in long-chain saturates, fasting
>insulin levels tend to drop.  It makes sense that under these
>conditions the desaturase enzymes work properly and the saturated
>fats are handled and don't cause trouble.

If particularly d6d isn't hindered by toxins (count excessive insulin as
such) there still needs to be a percentage worth to mention, where the
d6d-enzyme should work upon.
If only one of 10 molecules competing for d6d is a EFA then only
few EFA molukules will make it to the next stage (where the intermediates
of the previous competitors are already waiting too)...

>...  I've mentioned before that my grandmother was
>a vegetarian (except for *very* occasional fish-- once or twice a
>year) who ate beans and rice every day, with brewer's yeast.  She
>lived a long and healthy life, with no heart problems or cancer.
>She did experience tinnitus.  ...

Such a simple diet was proven to be a healthy option in many centuries.
I don't mean by changing the genes in this (only 60) centuries.
But by finding a way to eat adequate to them.

Ears contain 10-fold the vitamin a than the surrounding tissue.
It may be equally important for hearing as for seeing.
Beans and rice require to add vitamin a sources.
This may have been a possible problem for grandmother.

When eating rice, always plant some carrots nearby.

cheers

Amadeus