On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:26:51 -0700, Ingrid Bauer/J-C Catry
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>>Here in bavaria deers are overgrazing and destroying many upccomeing young
>>trees so the wood is likely to get into an age problem.
>
>It could be coming from the way forests are managed in Europe ( tree farm.
>Same age trees growing close together , shut down the understorey of
>"deer foods of predilection" , bushes and small plants ).

Part may come from such overmanaged forests.
Other, unmanaged forests are beeing tried to be reestablished.
However, the deer overpopulation is just what prevents the
rejuvenating of a forest. The deer eat the small seedlings.
And deer are so many, because artificial fedder (brought in from
distant sources) prevent the natural limiting of deer numbers in winters.

One deer grazed and destroyed a new planted tree on the hedge i
have created. It's just impossible to plant trees or bushes outside a
fence.

>I don't know here we are priviledged .our island is roughly less than 50000
>acres but with a coast line that decuplate the density of foods available
>to have an idea check the maps on that site
>http://www.savesaltspring.com/maps.htm
That island looks beautiful. Is the some space left for me?


>I am living at the edge  of  southest  park of 1200 acres with 4 miles of
>shoreline
>there is in that park an impressive population of deer i see  lot of them
>everyday and they feed only on  native  vegetation .

50000 acres would be enough for 50000/2471 = 20 h/g people then.
The park for about 1/2 person (or 5 persons overexploiting 1 year)
The shoreline  probably adds some sea resources.

>Fishes were so abondant in the past that the natives were harvesting them
>with a paddle barded with thorns ,just by paddling among them and emptying
>their catch at each stroke in their canoe.
Without a net?

> my garden is 5
>cres.( and still have 2 or 3 deers coming to visit every 2 or 3 days. plus
>a
>big family of quails , an owl , a racoon family ,squirels and many smaller
>birds
Sounds beautiful, really.
A 5 acre garden (abt 2 ha land) can sustain with primitive or organic
agriculture quite a lot of people. Abt. 30 persons full year.
With grains. And similar with vegetables.

>>Only the reintroduction of rideable horses (by spaniards after 1500)
>>led to the bison-exploitations nativa american societies (like sioux?).
>>Probably this this wouldn't have been a really sustainable structure
>>on the long run.

>That looks like humans species were quite uninstinctively regulated for a
>while allready.
>Could it be  that the use of fire made them overeat or may be it is just me
>( it did  that to me to cook my food)

They needn't overeat to overexploit. The space requirements are from
experiences and from computations (with say 2400 kcal).
If exploiting a very rich resource (bison herds) beyond natural regrowth,
the herd will have disappeared at some time.

about instincto...
>>Could this lead to hedonism?
>i don't know what exactely is hedonisme.

I wanted to say just what came in the next sentence.
>>Does it make us happy and content in the long run if we repeat
>>as often as possible what satisfied us once? Or satisfied us presently?

To explain my understanding of hedonism .. quite a challenge among knowing
people, like are here.
Running only after the good and pleasurable things - for the first look.
Possibly overlooking long term implications on society AND own "luck".

Please don't take this first look impression as a judgement on
instincto.

>... I could have tried to resolve the issue by fasting and begging my food
>like a monk.
>but may be i must be an hedonist because it didn't appeal to me.

I think, not using more than necessary (in any aspect)
is a good rule, hard to dispute.
Just where to set that line "necessary" or not - is not so easy.

regards

Amadeus S.