i will agree only to disagree and to the fact that there certainly does need
to be more education. your rationally is my irrationality and vice versa. i
think it is irrational to think abortion is anything but killing a kid. i
want to say what else is it? it is not a puppy for sure. but, you think my
line of thinking is irrational. so i agree to disagree. i have not
advocwated killing doctors or nurses. those who do so are killers, but,
thoose doing the abortions are killers too. killing is killing. you bet your
life i am against killing. i am going to stop this before i say any more. i
did not intend to get it started this morning.
-----Original Message-----
From: Trisha Cummings [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 11:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Great news
Hi Ken,
I don't think there is an "abortion" industry. There are laws restricting
abortions, it not a very safe thing to provide, Doctors and nurses have been
injured, killed and establishments destroyed - irationally on the sole
belief something is wrong to kill an unborn being. Now we all know I am
pro-choice - staunchly pro-choice. I am very much against abortions, but if
the truth be told - we need a lot more education, and lot less
self-righteous about the subject. The truth is not everyone is cut to be a
parent either natural or adoptive. This does keep people having babies nor
adopting, and comtinuing some bad cycles. You need a license to drive a
car - you need license to get married, you need pet licenses but you can
procreat like a rabbit without any need to show you can be a parent. I am
not the only person to say - I quote - "We have a license to drive a car,
carry a gun, even to go fishing. But there's no qualification for parenthood
beyond biology. There's not even a required reading list." H. Jackson Brown,
Jr., Author, "Life's Little Treasure Books"
2,000 children die in this country from physical abuse every year , many
many more thousands just suffer, hundreds of thousands of children are
removed from abusive homes - children die in household accidents becasue
they are left unattended, or are being watched by other children to young to
be responsible - If we can't save the born children - how can we tell the
people who don't want the kids - they need to have so we have one more born
child to save. We need laws that when peoples kids die or are seriously
injured in house hold accidents - they are held accountabible - they are
placed in programs that teach them parenting and their other children are
temporarily taken away from them for their own safety. We need make people
accountaible for their actions concerning their children becasue the parent
is the most influential person in a childs life - good parenting produces
good kids on the whole - we let to many people get away with the idea that
they are good parents by kids can go bad on their own. Each person decides
what their idea good parenting is - this does not necesarily make it so. We
need parenting to be taught so people can do it. The truth is many children
survive and thrive inspite of the adults in their lives. Children are still
chattel - they need laws that protect from the people who think they own
them, and people need to understand - they little God/dess given miracles
and who they become for the most part is a reflection of how they have been
treated. See poem below from a survivor site.
Children Learn What They Live
-----------------------------------
If a child lives with criticism,
They learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility,
They learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule,
They learns to be shy.
If a child lives with shame,
They learns to feel guilt.
If a child lives with tolerance,
They learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement,
They learns confidence.
If a child lives with praise,
They learns to appreciate.
If a child lives with fairness,
They learns justice.
If a child lives with security,
They learns to have faith.
If a child lives with approval,
They learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship,
They learn to find love in the world.
And this is true. The biggest probelm we have is we have made making a
mistake or being wrong a horrible thing instead a natural occurance there
fore people defend their stupid or bad behavior rather than admit to the
possible of being wrong making an erroneous assumption. I can illustrate
with an exmple that had me both shaking my and laughing. I received a number
of private defenses for spanking - when I posted the first of the parenting
series. The pathetic one was a man who staunchly defended his right to spank
his kids - his father spanked him - of course he said his father had come to
him as an adult and apologized for it and said he was wrong - did he learn
something from his father then - no he had learned it as a child - its okay
to hit your children - and would take a real adult to have listened to the
father and been able to admit that he too could be wrong and perhaps should
revisit his policy. Instead he was defensive. I read a super book this
weekend by the Rabbi Harold S. Kushner - it gives an alternative meaning to
the Adam and Eve story - rather than saying people are born bad - something
which can color our whole lives and keep us from feeling like worthwhile
loved creatures - he says we are loved worthwhile creatures. That the Adam
and Eve story is a way of explaining evolution and the difference between us
and animals - what it is saying is - an animal has a simple life - they are
hard coded to survival behavior. Humans on the other hand are sentient being
and this means we have hard decisions to make sometimes - and therefore in
the learning process we can and do make mistakes. Many of these decisions
affect others and are "moral". I have always felt this way - so it was
pleaseant to have my opinion seconded. The book is called "How Good Do We
Have To Be, A new Understanding of Guilt and Forgiveness". It is great
book - I highly recommend it to people who are open minded and willing to
think. Perhaps if we can learn to be gentle and forgiving withourselves - we
can become better parents.
By the way many of your points on adoption are very valid but again most
people want babies - so they don't inherit someome elses problem child -
they can mold them in the image they chose. I have several friends who have
adopted all from overseas - becasue they are to old here - one was so
selective becasue they didn't want to get a defective kid - and another more
becasue they had every possesion know to man except a kid, and finally a
family that has adopted 6 children - all ages and even siblings - this is
truly love for children rather than just having a kid.
I also know as an unwanted abused child - whose mother stood by and
let her be raped and beaten into bloodless pulp - I have strong feelings on
this - from the side most people don't see. It much easier to philosophize
from a distance than it to when you have experience - experience shows us
stuff isn't cut and dry, and each of us needs to be handled with love and
compassion - so we can grow and be our best. As some know 22 years ago I
lost my first child to being a battered spouse - shortly before she was due
and causing enough internal damage that I was never suppose to have be able
to have - and the reason that 9 years later my beloved Amber was born almost
9 weeks to early seriously ill - with heart lung problems and a stroke which
caused the CP. This year for reason my angel child - Elizabeth Danielle -
has been much on my mind. And a scary statistic - Sixty percent of battered
women are beaten while they are pregnant, often in the stomach. I am glad
that God loves us - because we sure hate each other and ourself enough to
create a really unkind and growth stunting world.
Brightest Blessings
Trisha
> well, mag, if more babys were adopted instead of aborted then it goes with
> out saying, that the abortion clinics would not make as much money. an
yes,
> there are people out there wanting to adopt lots of the babies if they
were
> carried to term and the damned governments would not make it so hard to
> adopt. i have a friend that went to russia and adopted two kids and i have
a
> friend that is in china now to adopt because it is just so hard to do
here.
> i have another friend who has adopted 3 kids here and paid a fortune in
> legal fees and an eternaty in time doing it and another friend who has
been
> waiting for years to get a kid. need i continue? none of these would make
a
> payment to the abortion clinics. more adoption = less abortion = less
money.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Magenta Raine [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:57 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Great news
>
>
> ken, i fail to see how adoption hurts the abortion industry.
>
> m.
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