At 09:15 AM 24/03/2002, David Griffin wrote:
>Frank--
>
>The debate you are referring to abstractly is one which is happening here and
>now on this list. My position in that debate is that those who put Israel and
>Judaism into mutually exclusive categories are themselves anti-semitic. Not
>only that, but they are providing ideological aid to Bush and the U.S.'s
>foreign policy, and Israel's use of terror against the Palestinians

"Anti-Semetic" (the capital S is important here) means
"racist".  Personally, I tend not to both using "anti-Semetic" as I don't
see a point in sub-categorising racism.  Now, I don't think anyone would
put (or even implied that they'd put) Israel and Judaism into mutually
exclusive categories, but it's surely incorrect to say that they're the
same?  Overlapping, sure - no doubt about that.

I know (personally) African Jews and Anglo-Australian Jews.  So I'm
confused (like Bill).  Are they not Jews?  I'm happy to accept that Judaism
is a religion and Jewishness is a 'race' (insofar as 'race' exists; it's as
much a social construct as religion).

>By "anti-semitic" I am using the term as it has been accepted by the
>mainstream to refer to Jewish people, as opposed to "anti-Arab" and
>"anti-Muslim". I could be more P.C. about it, but it doesn't matter, and
>fewer people would understand what I was even talking about. "Anti-semitism,"
>here, means lumping all Jews together into one nationalist group, and
>assuming that they all have a common, monolithic interest. That is what is
>truly "smug"-- not that someone points it out.

Referring to how the mainstream (apparently) uses words is pretty
pointless.  One might just as well say that in the mainstream the word
"Muslim" equates to "terrorist".  Certainly "Muslim fundamentalist"
does.  I further note that Islam is being used as if it were a race, and
monolithic (ignoring the differences between Arabic Islam and Asian Islam).

I think few on this list lump all Israelis or Jews (they're two different
groups, no matter which definition you want to use) together as a
monolithic group.  I think that in discussion we may talk about Israel and
Israel's actions in the same way that we'd talk about America and America's
actions.  This isn't to say that, for example, all Americans are
terrorists.  Their leadership is though, and in that respect all Americans
share the blame for that, whether they support their leadership's actions
or not.

Alister



--

"Let us not fool ourselves, half a century after the adoption
of this Declaration (of Human Rights) and supposedly under its
protection, millions of people have died in the world without
reaching the age of 50 and without even knowing that there was
a universal document that should have protected them."
                     Roberto Robaina



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