On Fri, 26 May 2000 17:20:06 -0400, matesz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Amadeus Schmidt said:
>>>Primate diet ok.. leaving out precessed foods - ok.
>But should one eat turkeys, pigs and cattle
>(loaded with hormones,pesticides and grain fed) as a *main* dish
>instead of some insects, reptiles or birds?

Rachel:
>In the U.S. (even in Ohio), we can get hormone and antibiotic-free chicken,
>ostrich, and Coleman natural beef at the Churchill's chain of grocery
>stores.  We can get hormone and antibiotic-free chicken, turkey, duck,...

I hope so, and it'd be wise to find best quality.
Hormones and antibiotics are are not the only or main drawbacks.
Only by the mass agricultural feeding with mass-grains, soy (and worse
things) make production of  substancial amounts of  meats possible.

My point was much more the amounts of meat as well as the type of animal
(very big cattle instead of insects or reptiles easily hunted by hand)
- were they really available to a paleolithic human?
One mio years back? Without fire then, naked with a "sharp" stick?

>
>Eating them need not crowd out vegetable eating either.  I personally eat
>10-15 USDA servings of produce per day and my husband eats this many or
>more.  A USDA serving of produce = 1/2 cup cooked veggies or raw carrots or
>1 cup salad greens or other very watery veggies or 1 cup of berries or 1
>small or 1/2 large apple/grapefruit.....
That is, what makes IMHO the main point of paleo. Very much vegetables.

>For many people eating 100 grams of nuts or seeds in a sitting/day (to get
>protein as you suggest), ...
That are more examples of plant items really heavy in protein.
Here nuts and seeds are best. And i like them and use then frequently.

But looking at any whole plant items except fruit i discovered that they
deliver 100-400% of rda protein if 2200 kcal or so are eaten.

Since we don't eat extracted food energy as carbs, so we are shure
to get enough of it. Except we ate extracted energy on form of (liquid)
fat. I do, that requires some protein bombs like nuts. ...

So, i think when on plant-paleo, protein shouldn't be a theme
except you use it for purpose of energy metabolism.
Even fruit alone may be adequate (88%).

>would cause copious amounts of gas and bloating.
>Ditto for the chickpeas and other beans...
Somehow i hardly ever experience that, except from cooked onions.
Chickpeas, nuts bloating? I guess this can by avioded by a
gut flora like comes automatically after some time of adjusting.

>  Also, the protein grams (on
>paper) for beans, nuts, seeds, and grains is pretty theoretical---the
>absorption rate is much lower for vegetable proteins than for complete
>proteins from animal foods.

Absorption rates from plants are lower, and listed in tables.
Subtract some 5 to 30%... doesn't make a big sifference.

>There are many people who've tried to get their protein from soaked or
>soaked and well cooked grains, beans, legumes, and other veggies and found
>they just could not get *blood from a turnip*
Maybe (i guess) it wasn't really the protein, but some other substance,
which made the diet like "hard to get blood".
Phytins and minerals?? Any vitamin? Too much of strong and hard turnip
armoa?
Or just too few plants.. if one is not used to the big volumes,
i think it'd be easy just to eat too little.

What you said about the 3 onces of chicken breast...
of course its much easyer to ingest much protein with the meats.
Without the sometimes stong plant aromes, oils etc or antinutrients...
Somehow i feel understood by your posting..
But naked with a sharp stick.. looks like he and she may have done that
frequently.

regards

Amadeus



>
>Rachel